What Constitutes Theft from Work
This was a comment by Retired Bookdealer on another thread. I thought it very interesting and worthy of debate. I therefore have posted it as a guest article:
Do You Use the Phone at Work ?
I was talking to a woman last night, who got caught using the phone at work for private calls.
As such she is possibly going to - or may lose her job.
A position which she has held for ten years.
I regret I am unable disclose what she does or where she works.
Her two children were ill and at home from school,
as such she kept a regular check on them via the telephone on her desk, unaware that all her calls were being checked and monitored regularly.
A couple of weeks went by and she was called into see the office manager
( a woman who also has children )
who confronted her about these telephone calls.
She explained that her children were ill and she was only making quick calls to check on there health.
But her employers have seen this in a different light,
as there company policy and regulations
look at this as theft of company property.
Hence she may loose her job.
How many of you, have or do use the phone, photocopier, fax, etc when at work ?
Ever thought of it as theft of company property ?
Rod said,
November 30, 2006 @ 11:24 am
Retired Bookdealer
I have known people sacked for this, however, recently the EU human rights bills appear to have made this illegal.
One of the points mentioned was; denial of communication was a denial of rights. An example used was workplaces would have to allow staff the use of communication devices or means!
She may want to look into it.
As to ’stealing from work’ this is when we become ambiguous. Most would not shoplift or burgle someone’s house but….. ever heard of
A mechanic buying oil for his own car?
An office worker buying paper clips or a biro?
A slaughter man buying meat?
A carpenter buying wood?
An electrician buying a plug? etc etc
The above is clearly theft and the combined cost for big companies and organizations must be huge as 3,000 employees say well it’s just a pencil.
I believe most of us enforce our own moral code, a way of carrying on that we personally feel comfortable with and , being honest, what suits us best, rather than sticking strictly to what’s right and wrong.
The problem with that is, it leads to hypocrisy.
Regards
Rod
A Retired Bookdealer said,
November 30, 2006 @ 12:35 pm
Dear Sir ,
May I firstly Thank you for pointing this out.
EU human rights bills appear to have made this illegal.
One of the points mentioned was; denial of communication was a denial of rights.
Which I shall be looking into and passing on any information that may help the lady concerned.
Also as I sit here typing what has and does become very clear to myself and I am sure others reading this is the help this website has provided.
Had it have not been for yourself ,
I would never have heard of the bill you mention.
You may have today with this website saved someone’s Job !
Well done Sir.
Rod said,
November 30, 2006 @ 12:49 pm
RB
whether it proves of use I cannot say, but I hope it does.
On a positive note, were I an employer I would not fancy going to a tribunal to defend a case against a mother phoning her sick children, especially given the fact she was actually at work and so many others would simply have called in sick themselves!
Whatever the law or EU says, it seems particularly churlish, especially as this time of year - positively Dickensian in fact
Regards
Rod
Witches of Eastwick said,
November 30, 2006 @ 3:09 pm
Rod, it all goes back to what the Witches have been saying for some time now on this site …. about the plight of the mother with split loyalties. On the one hand she probably really needs that job, on the other the welfare of her children. We have pointed this rather basic point out so many times ……. mothers cannot keep all the plates (expected of them) in the air at once all of the time. Children of a certain age need lots of care especially when they are ill …. if the children are below the age of 15 in the eyes of the law they probably shouldn’t be at home without an adult. Perhaps the lady had provided a babysitter but still wanted to check on her kids which is what any mother would want to do. Always be upfront with employers and tell them the situation, most will understand and be sympathetic. If in doubt call the kids at break times on your own mobile then the company cannot claim theft.
We wonder Rod, if you were a employer of lots of women who didn’t have partners to help with family issues, if you would be understanding and allow women time off or at least time to call home regularly. It all depends on what type of job these people are doing and if customers are directly involved and your business starts to look less professional.
While always being firmly on the side of women in general and especially those who look after kids on their own with little support from anyone, and who actually try very hard to keep a job down as well. That said there was a time when an acquaintance of ours needed to do the same thing as the lady in question and as we were close by we were able to see the situation from all sides for once. The employer in this case was not going to sack this women but she certainly did make it clear that at work there is little time for private calls etc. We could see her point and have thought about it for many years now. There must be a mid point where everyone concerned is happy but as we continue to see mothers struggling to cope, we can see very little changes and margins at work these days are tight, no one is indispensable, sad but true.
We hope everything turns out well for this woman and that she keeps her job.
WoE
A Retired Bookdealer said,
November 30, 2006 @ 3:24 pm
Perhaps the lady had provided a babysitter but still wanted to check on her kids which is what any mother would want to do.
Sorry i should have pointed out in my original post that she was phoning the
Childminder, who at the time was at home with the children.
( there own home i may add )
Rod said,
November 30, 2006 @ 3:33 pm
WoE
thanks for a great comment, much appreciated.
One thing that does really annoy me, and relates directly to this issue, is different standards depending on your position at work.
I have long held the belief that every employee within a company or organization should have the same benefits and perks.
The only thing that should differ should be the wages.
If you are the managing director you deserve a lot more money than the receptionist - what you don’t deserve is to be treated differently, given more holidays, free dental care etc etc.
To use this in the above case, one can imagine a receptionist sacked for calling to see how her kids are but would this ever happen to the managing director?
No of course it would not!
On a serious level, and being absolutely honest, I would not employ a woman who had young children and lived on her own.
We all know how difficult it is to juggle all those balls and I would know that I would be regularly let down by that person - no matter how genuine the situation.
If you run a smaller business and you personally are financially responsible for profit and loss you have to think differently.
Incidentally, I would also be reluctant to employ a young married woman with no children.
Would my business stand 6 months maternity leave and the cost of a temporary stand-in ?
If I worked for ICI or local government I would happily employ all sorts of people and take chances on people whom I thought deserved a chance.
But when the money is coming straight out of my own pocket ……..
It doesn’t read well I know, but it’s reality
Regards
Rod
Dr Spock said,
December 1, 2006 @ 3:21 pm
Rod,
Good point, in my experience when a parent doesn’t turn up for work because of their children it is usually the co-workers who are dropped in the shit and have to work extra to their great annoyance. I have worked with plenty of ‘co-workers’ who have and do suffer because of this but am yet to see a ‘big boss’ lose out on his/her free time. When you work in a small team it can be a nightmare and I’ve worked with mothers who have absolutely creamed it for all its worth resulting in me not knowing if I’ll get a day off from one week to the next. They’re the ones who get all the help and deserve it the least, what do I get? higher taxes to pay for it.
Rod said,
December 1, 2006 @ 3:59 pm
Dr Spock
another point of view, and with some validity as well.
In today’s world if you are not in some form of minority or favoured occupation then no government, or anyone else for that matter, will give a damn about you.
I know nothing ever applies to me because I am:
White
Unmarried with no children
Heterosexual
Non-religious
Self-employed
Let em’ all get on with it!