Stone Effigy of a Knight in Lincolnshire - Identity ?
In a small village called Ashby Cum Fenby, in the Lincolnshire Wolds England, lies the tomb of an unknown knight.
The carved stone effigy dates circa 13th century - it’s an impressive thing to see - I know, I went there to do just that.
Little did I know I’d be setting out on a real life medieval mystery
The church dates around 1230 originally, it also has an alms box which dates 1150, so period wise we’re smack on Crusader Knights.
As you can see to the left it’s quite a thing but the question is who was he ?
Clearly a man of either great wealth / importance or somebody heroic - perhaps both.
I’ve found reference to it in the splendidly named Gentleman’s Magazine, dated 1831, the writer says he cannot identify the knight but that the armour and dress etc date to Edward I - that would be 1239 – 1307
The identity of the knight is not something that I suspect can be decided unequivocally so some conjecture and speculation is, unfortunately, inevitable.
The first assumption I think we have to make is that it was somebody relatively local.
I doubt tomb lid stone effigies of knights were moved around very often - no doubt they have been but generally I suspect the remain somewhere near to their origins.
So therefore we’re looking for a knight local to Ashby Cum Fenby or the immediate vicinity.
I’ve been doing a bit of looking and here are some initial names that present possibilities for further research, I got these from snippets of the Domesday Book entries for Ashby Cum Fenby or Achesbi or Aschebi (I need a copy of the complete book methinks) and some from other sources.
Guy de Craon
Family in the Frieston area, if ever there was a family name for a Crusader Knights it’s Guy de Craon !
His descendents are in the area in the 13th century
Sir Christopher Wray
He died in Ashby mid 1646, did he have titled family in the area going back a few hundred years ?
His family subsequently had very strong connections with the area and the church
Thomas de Wodehays
Mentioned in state records as requesting the right to a gallows ! He died 1295 leaving quite a lot of land in the area
Richard De Lindon
1254 - took a Knight’s Fee from Ashby (Knight’s fee simply being a sum of money)
Some Points About the Effigy of the Knight
The legs are crossed and some people mistakenly assume this means that he was a Knight Templar or that he fought in the Holy Land.
This is a myth, it was simply the style attributed at the time of carving and nearly all carved during the mid 13th century onwards have crossed legs.
This carved tomb stone has something I understand to be quite rare which can be seen in the last picture below. There is a carved figure under the knight’s sword. It appears to be a small demon, imp or the like.
There is meaning to this I understand and I’ve had a quick look to see if I can find out what it is and could not.
I decided to leave it and hopefully we’ll gather some information after I publish this post
The Small Mysterious Figure Under the Sword
Live and interactive medieval mysteries - how could you not be both impressed and intrigued.
The aim has to be to collect as many snippets as possible related to people, families, the village or church around that time.
If you know of anything no matter how vague or you have an opinion or suggestions do leave a comment
So ladies and gentlemen - I give you today’s fox - let the hunt begin
Mysteriously Yours
Rod
chris keyworth said,
August 27, 2009 @ 8:20 pm
A Night called Randulfus de Bajocis Held lands in keelby, Aylesby, Laceby, Irby and Ashby in the Time of Edward II this could well be your Knight….
Regards
Chris
Little Brother said,
August 27, 2009 @ 10:57 pm
Rod,
This is amazing, but really quite annoying at the same time. Why is it that despite all of my internet searches for places of local and historical interest in Lincolnshire do none of these turn up?
It’s not good enough really.
LB
chris keyworth said,
August 27, 2009 @ 11:08 pm
with a little help from Rod They are doing………
Regards
Chris
Rod said,
August 28, 2009 @ 8:12 am
HI Chris,
thanks for throwing another name in the pot - great stuff I’d not come across that one.
Thanks as always
Best
Rod
Rod said,
August 28, 2009 @ 8:15 am
LB,
I know what you mean and hopefully things like this will help a little. There is a lot of information out there and I’d like to try and ’save’ as much of it as possible.
We’ve a great heritage here in Lincolnshire and it’s worthy of celebration - I just keep coming across things and thinking wow !
Best
Rod
the dinosaur said,
August 28, 2009 @ 8:24 am
Rod, my first thought on the small figure beneath the sword was that it could have been a depiction of the stone mason himself, like a signature, a common practice when most artisans were illiterate. However it does appear he has a tail, as you say - possibly an imp, some hasty research on this has come up with the fact that imps were a recognised symbol on tombs portraying “mortality”; I’m sure the meaning in those highly spiritual times was more subtle than we understand and hinted at the knight’s charachter or how he died? If only we knew?
Rod said,
August 28, 2009 @ 8:40 am
Dino,
thanks for that, that’s something I hadn’t even thought of.
I spoke to the church warden there and he told me they once had a visitor who travelled all over looking at churches and told him he’d only ever seen a figure like that under a sword once before - he also said what it meant although the church warden could no longer remember.
You’ve given me 2 great lines of enquiry - many thanks
All the best
Rod
Rod said,
August 28, 2009 @ 8:59 am
New Information
Interesting information about the position of the hands
There are, I believe, three basic styles: Sword Handling, Sword Drawing and Restful.
This knight has ‘hands at prayer’ and ‘crossed legs’ which suggest a date nearer the end of the 13th century
chris keyworth said,
August 28, 2009 @ 10:13 am
looking at the sword and sheild they seem disproportionate ie to small, i would think this knight died of old age and not in battle, if this is the case there will be a wealth of info out there about him. and i bet its all in the USA leave it with me, i know just where to look for it…..
regards
chris
chris keyworth said,
August 28, 2009 @ 10:23 am
http://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/e3v7/index/Edward3vol7page0675.pdf
Rod the above links is a resorce for searching the Historic Court Records of the day you will find a wealth of info in here but you will need to read through it all, search it by changing the page number in the link and if you want to change the king just change by changing the name ie Edward1
Edward 2, Edward3 and so on happy hunting.
i have spent many days in these books they are great….
regards
chris
chris keyworth said,
August 28, 2009 @ 3:10 pm
Hi Rod
a few more names for the hat…
Robert de Coventre
William de la Launde
Adam de Welle
Thomas de la Wodehaye
Regards
Chris
Rod said,
August 28, 2009 @ 3:52 pm
Chris,
that’s great - thanks for the link and the names.
Interestingly, Thomas de la Wodehaye cropped up for me as well but using the spelling thomas de wodehays
Great stuff !
Cheers
Rod
chris keyworth said,
August 28, 2009 @ 4:51 pm
did you see the stone efigys at irby when you visited there, they are out of this world….
Rod said,
August 28, 2009 @ 4:53 pm
No I didn’t Chris - the church was - as are most are nowadays locked - are they knights similar to this one ?
I only got this one because I went on Sunday - I waited outside for a hour for the service to finish just to get it !
Cheers
Rod
chris keyworth said,
August 28, 2009 @ 5:13 pm
There are two 16th century ones in there very well preserved as well, also you might want to gain access to the mauselium at limber i believe there are a few nice ones in there too, i am looking into stained glass at the mo as i think i may have found some of the panels from Newhouse Abbey, its a bit of a coo really as the church is at Brocklesby, some of the panels in there are of a similare age and design
Regards
Chris
Rod said,
August 28, 2009 @ 7:36 pm
Chris
16th century - that’s practically brand new
Hope your discovery turns out to be right Chris as that really would be some find !
The church on the Brocklesby Park estate is perhaps the most peaceful place I can remember visiting
Best of luck
Rod
chris keyworth said,
August 28, 2009 @ 8:23 pm
it may be older im no good with that sort of age but they have an Elizebeethen look to them.
the only thing with brocklesby is the info gets supressed, for years they would not even aknollage that the abbey was on there land, i can prove that the glass belonged to Newhouse as i have a collection of shards left to me by an old gent who was married on the site about 80 years ago its just a case of matching the make up of the glass but how do you get hold of the second sample thats the problem. so ive got to go down the relative comparison route, i am confident tho i will succeed.
Regards
Chris
Amiguru said,
October 30, 2009 @ 5:35 pm
Interesting that this geezah has a Rod above him….
More to the point; have you seen this site Rod?
http://www.themcs.org/armour/14th%20century%20armour.htm
Regards,
Neville
Rod said,
October 30, 2009 @ 7:14 pm
Neville,
I did come across that site, but I’ve bookmarked it now, and an excellent one it is too. I’m hoping to do a comprehensive separate guide to all the effigies in Lincolnshire - once I can get to them all that is
Best
Rod
Amiguru said,
October 30, 2009 @ 7:37 pm
Rod,
I feel there is a great deal of significance in their postures. For instance, the ones with crossed legs are the oldest as they are needing to go somewhere, particularly if their motto is ‘Gardez l’eau’. William de Valence, the younger is exceptionally desperate and is seemingly ready to draw his weapon.
Chevalier Neville
Semper plenus!
Rod said,
October 30, 2009 @ 7:42 pm
Neville,
I like it
Rod
chris keyworth said,
October 30, 2009 @ 8:44 pm
Rod here is a true Secret Building for you to look at hope you have got your fuel coupons, at Goxhill there is an old hall which belonged to a true night who lost his head at the battle of Hexam location TA 1090 2040 but was brought back and buried at Newhouse Abbey, The Building of Early Medieval Date is extant in all its glory. …
Regards
Chris
Rod said,
October 31, 2009 @ 9:00 am
Chris,
that sounds intiguing, to say the least - a medieval puzzle - what could be better.
Best
Rod - with his thinking cap on
Rod said,
October 31, 2009 @ 9:22 am
Chris,
this one’s gripping me now. I’m scoting through my books and Mee came up trumps - again !
De Vere in effigy at the church and, very excitingly, Goxhill Abbey as it’s known and still standing - 14th century !
Goxhill clearly needs some serious attention from this end - I may need a guide and some assistance - do we know anybody that knows much about the area and its history
A Gripped Rod
chris keyworth said,
October 31, 2009 @ 11:51 am
rod,
one name springs to mind, if you can find him one Mr Glyn Coppack ex of Goxhill himself and leading Aurthority and Writer on Medieval Monastic buildings and lincolnshire, do a book search rod for Glyn Coppack you will love his books..
Regards
Chris
Rod said,
October 31, 2009 @ 5:24 pm
Chris,
thanks for the books lead - he’s done a lot in the field and they all look of great interest.
I will get to Goxhill at the next opportunity Chris - another blinding tip-off
Many thanks, as always
Rod
Amiguru said,
October 31, 2009 @ 7:49 pm
Rod,
Pick a nice day for it and you may find time to visit Barrow-on-Humber next door. Since you seem to like co-ordinates, try Lat 53° 41′ 18.2″ Long 0° 23′ 16.6″ then for a curiouser feature try Lat 53° 40′ 28.7″ Long 0° 22′ 24.5″ If you do a thread on Barrow I shall have a nice pictorial contribution to offer.
etymologically, why New Holland?
Oh, and by the way,
Cryptically yours,
Neville
Rod said,
November 1, 2009 @ 7:59 am
Neville,
I’ve done some of the area but they’re not yet published still only partially prepared as draft posts.
I’ll try and get my ever diminishing brain around the rest Neville but at this moment I’m struggling with a . . .
reverse hangover !
I had a dry night last night
As to New Holland my first instinct is to guess at a connection with reclaimed land ? ?
Best
A Partially Functioning Rod
Amiguru said,
November 1, 2009 @ 10:23 am
Sorry O Great Leader, no pressure intended; was just thinking of the economics of time and the pressures on the Royal Coffers.
Thanks for the opinion on New Holland; just wondered what others think/know. I have a C19th. suggestion but will hold that in abeyance for a little while to allow others to contribute. Did you ever go on the Lincoln Castle et al. to the continent of Yorkshire? I did quite frequently from the 1940’s until 1979, two years before their sad demise.
Whisperingly yours,
Neville
Rod said,
November 1, 2009 @ 10:43 am
Neville,
I’m off to do further investigation now I need a break from my church list - I’m finalising and up to T now
Phew - what a job check it out thus far
http://www.rodcollins.com/lincolnshire-churches-complete-list.htm
New Holland crops up obviously all over the world - usually due to the Dutch discovery presumably Neville but obviously not the case here so I plump for land drainage
I did cross the river and enter the North of England Neville.
In fact I should have been able to do so free of charge, I also argue that I should be able to cross the Humber Bridge sans toll !
Freeman of the Borough were granted free from ferry charges !
Cheers
Rod
Rod said,
November 1, 2009 @ 10:51 am
53° 41′ 18.2″ Long 0° 23′ 16.6″ then for a curiouser feature try Lat 53° 40′ 28.7″ Long 0° 22′ 24.5″
This is one for CK - my best efforts put me in the sea !
Regards
Navigationally Challenged Rod
Chris Keyworth said,
November 1, 2009 @ 12:02 pm
Hi Rod The first one is Barrow Castle TA 0650 2260
the second one is TA 0725 2100
The best i can find nearest to the second location is the Monastery of st chads.
The ancient monastery ‘Ad Baruae’ in Lindsey was founded about the middle of the seventh century; probably between 669 and 672, when St. Chad was bishop of Lichfield, for traces of his discipline remained there in the days of Bede.
The land on which the monastery was built was the gift of King Wulfhere (657-75), and was sufficient to support fifty families; the rule it followed was probably the same as that of the more famous house at Lastingham. When Wilfrid, bishop of Mercia, was deposed by Archbishop Theodore for some act of disobedience, he took refuge at Barrow, and ended his days there ‘in all holy conversation.’
This monastery was also destroyed by the Danes and never rebuilt.
hope this sheds light… Nevs Grids are slightly off….LoL
regards
chris
Amiguru said,
November 1, 2009 @ 12:40 pm
My grid reference would indeed be ‘slightly off….LoL‘ if I was referring to St. Chad’s, however, that is not what I was pinpointing. Of necessity, as I am in Essex, I am using satellite data for my referencing.
Regards,
Neville
Chris Keyworth said,
November 1, 2009 @ 12:56 pm
Nev
TA 0707 2108, The butter cross, step, base and part of shaft…..
that is the nearest to the exact grid you gave ????? just had a look through one of my jurnals should have gone there first really i have quite a bit on Barrow on humber just not visited the area for a few years….
regards
Chris….
Amiguru said,
November 1, 2009 @ 2:21 pm
Chris,
Good try, but its not the butter cross either. I think you are coming unstuck by converting my Latitude/Longitude to OS grid references. This can never be accurate as Lat/Long references pinpoint an intersection of lines, whereas grid references indicate an inclusive square, which contains the referred to point. Another factor is that UK OS mapping is locked to the OSGB-36 elliptical model of the earth’s surface, whereas satellite mapping and GPS systems use the world wide WGS-84 model. As Rod may well use his Sat-Nav to find the spot, I decided that my reference was likely to take him to the exact spot.
Barrow Castle was a fairly obvious target in Barrow-on-Humber but the second one is quite novel and could be transient. It can be found using internet technology alone but I know Rod likes to get his photos. Happy hunting
Regards,
Neville
Chris Keyworth said,
November 1, 2009 @ 2:44 pm
nev
i looded at the grids on google earth and your grid put me on somones driveway, i know that len ex of emerdale farm lives here somwhere lol, can you give us a clue as to what we are looking for…..
regards
chris
Rod said,
November 1, 2009 @ 3:24 pm
Chris,
that’s great info - you’re clearly an ‘good man in a crisis’
I may need you by my side at all times
best
Rod (making notes)
Rod said,
November 1, 2009 @ 3:26 pm
Neville,
Of necessity, as I am in Essex
Your only serious flaw
My Sat Nav is in fact a little known but immensely reliable on - it’s called the . . .
Acme CeeKay 100 - it has never let me down and needs no batteries
Cheers
Rod
Chris Keyworth said,
November 1, 2009 @ 3:30 pm
runs soley on coffee .lol
Amiguru said,
November 1, 2009 @ 3:54 pm
Ah at last!
Clue the first: Celtic pattern…..
I’m just trying to encourage you to start a ‘Cryptic NE Lincs’ quiz
Mysteriously,
Neville
Rod said,
November 1, 2009 @ 4:15 pm
Celtic Pattern,
what about a stone cross ?
No, can’t be - I’m not that lucky
Chris Keyworth said,
November 1, 2009 @ 4:17 pm
You have totaly lost me on this one nev, can’t find any refrence to celtic occupation in barrow village its self there are refrences to stone crosses one in the church yard the other mentioned above but other than that nothing to add. the nearest celtic influance and settlement is west of barrow hall and along deepdale incedentaly there was a roman villa down there, for your note book rod.
regards
chris
Amiguru said,
November 1, 2009 @ 4:29 pm
Hi Guys,
Your not a mile away Rod but it needs some lateral thinking Chris.
I could be giving you the run-around but there is mower to it than meets the eye!
Look carefully, look very carefully.
Neville
Chris Keyworth said,
November 1, 2009 @ 4:43 pm
nev
i think its a turf maze but the only mazes i can find is the one at Alkborough and the maise maze at thornton abbey i cant find any other refrences, although it may have been replicated in the grounds of the pilgrims rest hotel in barrow…
Regards
Chris
Amiguru said,
November 1, 2009 @ 5:25 pm
Chris,
Your getting the idea……
Next clue: The wold is not far away and going to college might help….
Regards,
Neville
Chris Keyworth said,
November 1, 2009 @ 5:34 pm
nev
got you TA 0770 2105 park farm maze. poor attempt at a celtic style maze but good effort anyway…
regards
chris..
Amiguru said,
November 1, 2009 @ 5:53 pm
Bingo!
Would you like to construct the next puzzle?
Though I won’t be on as frequently after today as its back to school tomorrow.
Regards,
Neville
Chris Keyworth said,
November 1, 2009 @ 6:12 pm
ok here we go, was once the haunt of clark gable….
Amiguru said,
November 1, 2009 @ 6:35 pm
Shall we say Goxhill?
Regards,
Neville
Chris Keyworth said,
November 1, 2009 @ 7:07 pm
it could be but can you be more specific
Rod said,
November 1, 2009 @ 7:18 pm
Clark Gable had a $5,000 bounty on his head by Herman Goering when he was in the American Airforce.
That’s me out !
Amiguru said,
November 1, 2009 @ 7:45 pm
He was stationed briefly at the US airbase at Goxhill.
Chris Keyworth said,
November 1, 2009 @ 8:46 pm
i was looking for USAF goathill, but yes you are right Nev
regards
chris
Rod said,
November 2, 2009 @ 9:17 am
This is another case of what I keep going on about . . .
How many people knew that !
There’s so much more to this county than even most of us who live here realise
Thanks Guys
Rod
Amiguru said,
February 9, 2010 @ 6:00 pm
Rod,
The cross-leggedness seemingly had significance! It is suggested that they are secular warriors who had been admitted as associated brothers of The Temple and that this is a coded indication of this. What think you?
Regards,
le
N
Rod said,
February 9, 2010 @ 6:15 pm
Neville,
a lot of people say that if the legs are crossed it meant they fought in the Holy Land, I’ve looked into it quite a bit and I don’t think it’s the case.
I believe it just simply became the style that most were carved in - I suspect it must have had some meaning initially but subsequently I think it became de rigueur.
It’s worth some more looking into though I think, I imagine much will depend on the date
Best
Rod
Amiguru said,
February 9, 2010 @ 7:37 pm
Thanks Rod,
I readily confess that Templar issues have not featured in my studies prior to ‘joining’ your ‘brotherhood’ of research. This is rapidly being rectified however by your interest in it. My reference was sourced from C. G. Addison - are you familiar with him?
Regards,
le
N
Rod said,
February 9, 2010 @ 7:58 pm
Neville,
most of the Templar work available is pretty much cut and paste, a lot of supposition stated in a factual manner as well.
I’ve got one of Addison’s books somewhere but I don’t think I’ve read it yet - my Templar book reading pile is backlogged with a least 10 books !
So many books to read and so few years in which to do it
Malcolm Barber The New knighthood is worth a read - very dry but factual
GA Campbell The Knights Templar is a good read but a little literary
Anything with Michael Baigent’s name attached to it is, of course, unmissable
Best
Rod
Amiguru said,
February 10, 2010 @ 7:42 pm
Rod,
Thanks for that. Your response, believe it or not, caused the filters on the school network to jump in and prevent me from reading it this morning! I check things daily when I get to work such as e-mails, fora, blogs etc. but the filter system, which is of course only simple software, has a wordlist of something like 800 taboo words and their variants to which it reacts. Being on a school system it errs on the cautious side. As we all know, many everyday simple words such as doll, bird, tart and so on have double entendresif taken out of context.
Today’s knee-jerk reaction was ‘pretty’ would you believe
So, if there is anything you want to keep me in suspense over, you know what to casually toss, ( 
there we go again!) into conversations!
Embarrassedly yours,
le
N
Rod said,
February 10, 2010 @ 7:54 pm
Neville,
schools . . . pfft !
I play a bigger game than that
(I’m trying to think of who made the joke about having been thrown out of better places than this)
I’m banned in the state of Qatar
http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/persona-non-grata-in-qatar
and the public libraries
http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/why-is-my-website-banned-by-public-libraries
Hampton Richardson said,
March 26, 2011 @ 3:26 pm
Rod
I just came across your website and was intrigued. I am writing a novel, well, I am trying to.It is set in the 14th century, and part of it takes place in Lincolnshire. I live in the USA and my only knowledge of Lincolnshire, other than a single trip in 2000 comes from books and the websites.My family is reportedly from Lincolnshire but I have never found a verifiable link. I was wondering if I could ask you questions regarding history, geography, customs, etc?
Rod said,
March 26, 2011 @ 6:36 pm
Hi Hampton,
thanks for the comment and welcome ot the site - it sounds like an intriguing project.
You’ll probably find quite a bit on the site already that may be of use but if anything else comes up then feel free to leave a comment and perhaps I or others may be able to helps
Best of luck with the book
Rod