Stallingborough Artillery Bunkers ~ WW2 Gun Emplacements
Sunday morning is supposedly a day of rest - but not so for your host !
Acting on a tip-off from Our Man in the Field (Chris Keyworth) I decided I should look for the Heavy Gun Installation mentioned in one of his comments !
First question: Where are the concrete defence bunkers near Stallingborough and Keelby ?
That’ll be easy you’d think - well think again ! I did, of course 
, succeed and it really was worthwhile
I looked all over the internet for directions on how to get to the place all to no avail - all I could find were people posting the very same question on forums and boards ! It’s not mentioned on any maps I have and there is a virtual blackout of information on the internet !
Not to be beaten and armed only with Motorhead bag, camera, Ordnance Survey map and CK’s mention of it being between Stallingborough and Keelby - I sallied forth.
I could find nothing ! I asked 3 people around the area none of whom knew anything about it - finally I asked a man with a dog - he turned out to be a metal detectorist and knew the exact spot !
“It’s completely hidden in a small wood, the Ministry of Defence planted a load of trees all around it years ago to obscure it” said the Roman Coin Seeker
[Later Edit] When you’ve finished the article please do check the comments as some contain a lot more information. Particularly those of Len Copsey who was there and has furnished us with a truly fascinating insight - don’t miss those comments - thank you
Battery Look Out Post
I should like to provide more information about the site and what went on there etc but I’m afraid at the time of writing I could find little that was surely factual.
World War II Heavy Anti-Aircraft Battery
The above shows the steps which lead up to the bunker in which the ant-aircraft gun was mounted, with the picture below showing the inside and the actual mounting ring onto which the gun was bolted
The View Inside One of the Gun Placements
Underground Concrete World War 2 Bunker
The above shows the entrance into one of the underground chambers, pretty waterlogged so, for once, commonsense won over valour and a shot from outside is the result
Heavy Artillery Installation
This was a final view of the other side of the site, all still hidden from the road by the woods and a bit tricky under foot as there is a lot of loose rubble so beware.
How to Get There ~ Directions
Please Note: The land is private but slight further down is a public footpath next to the field that goes straight to the wooded area. I’m not sure as to the rights of access to the bunkers, I saw no signs indicating you cannot go in but . . .
[Later edit] The landowner has pointed out that the site itself is on private land and there is no public access, there is a public footpath to the side but the site itself is on private land so not accessable to the public
Fortified Gun Emplacements
It was all pretty much like a Boy’s Own day out and thoroughly worthwhile. As with so many of these trips the place evokes an eerie feeling of times gone by and lives unknown.
[later edit] A period aerial photograph - thank to Chris Keyworth for sending it in
Aerial photograph of the area taken some time ago
Ack-Ackingly Yours
Rod
Also see the better preserved Barrow Haven Gun Site
[Edit July 2011] Above in red there’s mention of the fabulous first-hand information provided by friend of the site Len Copsey.
By way of introduction to Len’s wonderful comments here’s his actual National Service Call up book with his service from 1947 to 1949 - absolutely wonderful.
Don’t miss Len’s comments below . . .
Gunner Copsey !
chris keyworth said,
August 3, 2009 @ 8:52 pm
Hi Rod Pleased you liked it…….
It is the site of RAF and RA Stallingborough, Greenlands Farm, This site held the second Largest guns in the UK next to Dover, and was also part of the largest ground based training camp for the Army in our area during the second world war, the is a Media Blackout on this site i have tryed for years to find out more about this site and to no avail perhaps one of your readers knows some more or better still served there…
This battery was responsible for destroying many enermy aircraft over immingham and grimsby for more info visit the immingham museum open daily
well done Rod….
regards
chris
Rod said,
August 4, 2009 @ 8:16 am
Hi Chris,
I must say I was surprised at the lack of information I could garner - hopefully, as you say, somebody will see this and chime in with some info
Thanks again for the tip-off
All the best
Rod
Annie Flinn said,
August 4, 2009 @ 6:44 pm
Rod,
I did several searches and had the best luck putting in Stallingborough pillbox. Try this link:
pastscape.english-heritage.org.uk/hob.aspx?hob_id=1429224…
chris keyworth said,
August 4, 2009 @ 7:01 pm
Hi Annie
sorry this is a different battery on the humber wall the one Rod looked into is inland and much bigger not sure if the Defence of Britain Project are even aware of this site……
Stallingborough Battery located at TA 224 147. It was built as part of the Humber estuary’s coastal defence system. The battery opened in 1915 and by February 1916 was equipped with two 6-inch breech-loading Mk. VII guns. The guns were removed in 1919 and the site abandoned in 1926. The site was reused during the Second World War and in 1940 was fitted with a pair of 4.7-inch quick-firing guns and two searchlights for close defence. It was disused sometime between 1943 and 1945. (2-3)
regards
chris
Rod said,
August 4, 2009 @ 7:03 pm
Hi Annie,
I saw that when I first looked for directions and thought bingo !
But when I checked out the map coordinates it gives a location on the coast by Immingham - I did hear there was another near Killingholme which is the same area and I intend to check that one out asap.
Thanks for the help Annie and it does throw up the interesting question, is the battery above originally World War 1 in origin as the one listed in your link is ?
Best
Rod
Rod said,
August 4, 2009 @ 7:05 pm
oops cross posted - typing at the same time it seems
chris keyworth said,
August 4, 2009 @ 7:21 pm
there is a sea plane base at killingholme dated to the first world war see immingham museum for that one as it is nearly all built on now as it is on killingholme haven where the new docks are now. the I M has a god collection relating to this site….
chris keyworth said,
August 4, 2009 @ 8:29 pm
Found This…
RNAS Greenlands top stallingborough WW I
Opened: Apr 1918
Closed: 1919
[edited by sitte owner]
505 Flt, 251 Sqn :: Apr 1918 - 1919
Greenland Top, near Keelby, opened in the closing phase of the Great War. It had a very short existence and was home to 505 Flt of 251 Sqn until its disbandment in 1919.
Certain formations, including the RNAS units (later RAF) based at Killingholme, were given to refering to Greenland Top as Stallingborough.
best i could find is refrence to post war defences which would explain the lack of info the 100 year rule…..
Rod said,
August 5, 2009 @ 8:19 am
Hi Chris,
that’s the site I mentioned which is the only one that keeps popping up.
I’ve had to edit the comment as we can’t copy text exactly from another website as it can cause this article to get removed from Google.
It is strange that there is no mention of this particular site - hopefully somebody was was actually there may see this
Cheers
Rod
Annie Flinn said,
August 5, 2009 @ 5:23 pm
I find this all very fascinating. While noodling around doing searches, I came upon an advert by a fellow who leads tours of different war implacements. It would be tempting to join one of his tours. My German friend and I visited Verdun (as I mentioned on a different posting), and the Maiginot Line, and I loved every minute of our tour. I guess I am just old enough, and saw enough wartime B-movies with John Wayne, et al that these sites intrigue me no end. Rather like the character in “Twleve O’Clock HIgh” who returns to the airfield in England where he was stationed, I experience a wave of memories (gained second-hand) at the sight and mention of old war sites. Thanks to you and Chris for the walkabout.
Rod said,
August 5, 2009 @ 7:25 pm
Hi Annie,
these places and the history around them can be as interesting or a lacklustre as a person would wish.
Simply given a bit of time, visit such a place and immerse yourself in the area, the history and let your imagination do the best - surely many people who didn’t even imagine they could be interested would be taken in.
Certainly I’m getting some good emails about this content on the site - more people like it than I thought.
Possibly some of the attraction is the journey and the learning curve I’m on - perhaps others are doing the same.
Cheers
Rod
chris keyworth said,
August 6, 2009 @ 12:25 am
ok here is a wartime mystery…..
On 12th March 1945 a Lancaster Bomber took off from what was RAF Elsham Wold bound for Dortmund Germany, whilst on its bombing run it took a direct hit through the wing, whilst this would not be a big issue normaly on this occasion it was to prove fatal to one of the crew members sgt F E Carter, the story goes.
on inspection of the wing in mid flight it soon became aparent that there had been a direct hit by an alied incendry bomb and the bomb had trapped itself in the wing, it was deemed safe to fly back home however these sorts of decice were activated by a spinning prop on the front of the bomb, once this stops spinning……BOOOOM….
the crew managed to fly the stricken Lanc back to base at Elsham top however the dilemer was do they land and risk killing everyone or do they bail out, they decided to bail out over the airfield, all but one of the crewdid this sgt Carter drew the short straw and stayed on the aircraft to guide it away from the airfield he did this bailing out at the very last minute just before the plane crashed into a wooded area, Sgt Carter bailed out but he was to low to the ground and his parachute failed to open killing him instantly, his body was recovered close to the site the same day.
The lancaster was left on the crash site as it was to inaccesable to recover… the Lancaster remains on the crash site to this very day……
i searched for two years to find this aircraft and succeeded..
can you find it ??????
details.
PM-V LM131 Lancaster Elsham Wold (Miss Venus)
only me and a few Pesky Wabbits Know the exact spot, Good Hunting…
regards
Chris
Rod said,
August 6, 2009 @ 8:08 am
Chris,
great stuff and another mystery worth looking at - what about Google Earth - could that show anything ?
One of our esteemed regulars Dino came up with the idea of using it to look for crop marks and building outlines in fields - it’s a great tool
Best
Rod
chris keyworth said,
August 6, 2009 @ 10:19 am
Hi Rod
Indeed google earth is a valuable tool in this case and did clinch the find spot for me but it was not obvious, i had to look into air crashes and crash sites to get a feel for the crash patterns that downd aircraft made in the ground, LM131 was a typical crash site just before impact the aqircraft banked hard right rolling onto its side the wing impacted first into the trees this created a half moon effect in the trees which up until about 25 years ago nothing ever grew back, now there is a very dense covering but the crash site is still visible just if you know what to look for
Regards
Chris
at least one of the crew members still survives today
(Elsham Wold Air Museum Elsham top next to the Resovoir)
Annie Flinn said,
August 6, 2009 @ 6:15 pm
To Rod and Chris,
I love this stuff. When my son was very young, I used to put him in our pick-up truck and then start driving. If I found a dirt road that looked interesting, I’d say, “Let’s have an adventure,” and off we’d go. Those little journeys are among my favorite memories, and, according to my lad now, he is often given to taking roads he’s never been on before. Your posts are like having little adventures from right at my desk. Keep up the trekking, please!!!
Annie
Rod said,
August 6, 2009 @ 7:49 pm
Annie and Chris,
thanks for the comments - really appreciated and pleased people seem to like it.
Annie as to Keep up the trekking, please!!!
See the next comment
Best
Rod
Rod said,
August 6, 2009 @ 8:06 pm
Important Update ~ Mystery Solved ?
Today I visited the site mentioned by Annie
pastscape.english-heritage.org.uk/hob.aspx?hob_id=1429224…
I visited the site today, which proved to be something of a trial in itself ( long story - involving civil disobedience etc) and I’m beginning to wonder whether it is actually a mix up with coordinates.
That is to say, the information does in fact refer to the site photographed above but the grid reference and maps that then follow suit refer to the site at Killingholme.
The site visited today was nothing like as impressive.
It is also in Killingholme and not Stallingborough Battery despite being named Stallingborough Battery or Stallingborough Fort
If it is a mix up of sites by English Heritage or whoever supplied the grid reference does that leave room for a nice conspiracy theory - please put on the supplied tinfoil hat now.
There is next to no information available for the site I originally reported on and the MOD planted a wood to obscure it - possibly then they gave the coordinates as the one on the Humber Estuary so anybody wishing to visit would go to that one not Keelby ?
Anyway, a great day out with some detective work involved - could well be a mystery solved - we shall see.
It was also a great day for refusing to be told what I can and cannot do - who do some people think they are and don’t they know who I am
Investigatively and Rebelliously Yours
Rod
chris keyworth said,
August 6, 2009 @ 11:26 pm
Hi Rod
tin foil hat on…..
lets start at East Halton but on the sea wall, east halton Skitter was part of a massive deception during WWII the area was laid out with lights to lok like hull docks and to draw fire from enermy fire which it did to great effect..
Killingholme Haven were Simon Storage is today was a massive sea plane base the jettys can still be seen jutting out into the humber there is a nature reserve there just near the entrance to the dock at killingholme haven this was the main site of the sea plain base, just up from there you will find a light house near to the top secret MOD Fuel dump (fact). this can just be seen from google earth, on station road killingholme there is a few sheds in a field these are hangers for Barage balloons if you look you will find some anchor points too.
still heading south along the wall you come to immingham dock this was a submarine base juring the war.
crossing the lock gates you will eventualy come to a pond i can remember there being a pill box there.
further along you will come to a sharp bend in the wall going around some waist land this is where your coordinates are for, this waistland used to be the sight of a light anti aircraft battery and later a coast guard station. my knollage ends there..
just a quick note the fuel dump i mentioned is MOD property so dont go wondering on there its not worth the hasstle Remember Greenham Common.
If stallingborough is a post war site then it will be under the 100 year rule as most cold war sites still are this will explain it being hused up.
while we are on hushed up sites tho, are you aware that our area was on the front line during the cold war at caistor there was 3 ICBMs based there up until the mid 70s and another 3 at Ludford explaining the huge nuclear bunker complex at Donnington on Bain the Nuclear strike comand for our area was RAF Hemswell…..
food for thought isnt it..
regards
chris
Annie Flinn said,
August 7, 2009 @ 1:24 am
What would trekking be without a little civil disobedience??
Annie
Rod said,
August 7, 2009 @ 8:09 am
Chris,
great stuff - I had no idea of the nuclear info and it certainly is food for thought - I sometimes wonder whether it might be better to be kept in the dark about somethings - do we really want to know it all.
As they say ignorance is bliss !
Thanks again Chris
Cheers
Rod
Hugh said,
September 6, 2009 @ 1:56 pm
Coastal Batteries.
There was a WW1 coastal defence battery at Killingholme, as well as the Seaplane base and Admiralty fuel stores.
Further down the coast at Immingham there was a Naploeonic costal defence battery which has sadly been destroyed by the docks, there is a blip in the coastline where it used to be. It was paired with Paull battery on the Northern bank.
At Stallingborough there was a WW1 and a WW2 coastal defence battery (on the smae site but using differnt emplacment), again paired with one on the North Bank. Whats left is in the back of Millenium Inorganic Chemicals plant, last time I checked there was a small pillbox and a couple of guard rooms and the top of one of the WW1 emplacments.
The emplacements on Keelby road are all that is left of an anti-aircraft battery. It once had the smaller 3.75″ (iirc) guns as well as the larger 5.25″ guns which sat on the emplacments which are still there. Both sets of guns had ammunition stores, concrete emplacments, command posts (the underground bunker thing), and shared a Radar and Nissen hut style barracking. The stables near the emplacments are the former guard room and ammunition store for the 5.25″ emplacments; behind them, buried under loads of brambles, is a Cold War Royal Observer Core underground monitoring post, these bunkers would have monitored nuclear fallout should the worst happen.
I’m not sure where Chris got his information, I would be quite interested, as I was under the impression that the only WW2 anti aircraft battery in the area that had managed to shoot anything down was the Goxhill site.
chris keyworth said,
September 6, 2009 @ 2:02 pm
hugh
the immingham battery down manby road had two confirmed kills over the town one crashed in a field near the bluestone pub the other into the humber just off the docks
regards
chris
chris keyworth said,
September 6, 2009 @ 2:12 pm
local knollage mate you can’t beet it, ask the oldies……
Amiguru said,
September 13, 2009 @ 1:06 pm
OK Rod, Chris, Annie, Hugh, and anyone else interested; I can’t add anything to the bones of this investigation but I can add a little flesh in the form of a reference to the emplacement by a first hand account of the Habrough Rd. crash referred to by Chris.
An old and late friend of mine, Eric Rands, well known to anyone interested in Immingham history, relates to several incidents during the 2nd. WW when he was a member of the Immingham Royal Observer Corps:
“Another alarming experience came when on 22 March 1941, in the Observer Post on duty was Observer E. Simpson and Observer C. Pettifer a few minutes to eight in the evening an enemy aircraft was plotted coming in low over the Docks all the guns at Little London and Sixhills in Manby Road with their 4.5 inch guns opened fire. The dock guns opened up including the machine gun on the top of the Granary, this appeared to hit the plane and it lost height and come very low over the Post just managing to clear Margaret Street and the houses in Pelham Road and hitting the top of a large ash tree in Stallingborough Road, narrowly missing the home of Mrs. J. Kennedy it crashed in the cornfield of Mr. Maltby in Habrough Road. The bomber a Heinkel 111 was carrying nine bombs which fortunately had dropped harmlesly on the dock estate. It carried a crew of four two of the men were taken prisoner and two died, one of the two prisoners was the rear gunner called Herbert Heinrich.”
A fuller account of Eric’s experiences in the Observer Corps. can be read in “More memories of Immingham” by E. Rands published by Immingham Museum and Immingham & District History Society.
Immingham News published a whole page article about this incident on 21 August 1970 entitled “Death of a Heinkel Bomber” including a photo of Yours Truly holding a piece of the wing fabric of the aircraft and a piece of parachute chord. I can’t believe how young I was then complete with nerdy but trendy, (then), black framed glasses!
I’ll re-read all six columns later and report back if there is anything of interest to add.
Researchingly yours,
Neville
Rod said,
September 13, 2009 @ 4:00 pm
Neville,
that’s blindingly good information - pure gravy as PG Wodehouse used to say !
It’s just the sort of stuff that I really hoped would happen - great information such as this being added and the whole page simply getting better and better in terms of interest and content.
Many thanks for taking the time Neville, I’ll not be the only one who appreciated it
All the best
Rod
chris keyworth said,
September 13, 2009 @ 9:29 pm
here is one for you, did anyone know there was also a battery at broclesby cross roads near habrough and a rail battery at broclesby interchance near habrough,
can anyone add to this one
Amiguru said,
September 14, 2009 @ 4:59 pm
Rod & Co.,
Lots of detailed information in the Immingham News article about the Habrough Road crash but nothing more about the Little London Battery. Very well written article but no indication as to the journalist. I can only recall one who I think wrote for The News, Chris Otter, perhaps it was he. I believe the archive is in Grimsby Library if anyone wants to follow it up.
No Chris, I didn’t know about those but then I have been considerably remote in space and time for keeping up with things in N.E. Lincs. Until now that is! Thanks to Rod’s site
Neville
David J. Smith said,
October 5, 2009 @ 7:17 pm
Hi Rod.
I have just discovered your site and find it deeply interesting. I enjoyed reading the letters from Neville (Amiguru). This can only be my old friend Neville Sissons. I have lost touch with him since he left Roxton Sidings where he used to live, but I would be really grateful if you would contact him on my behalf and see if he would forward me his email address so I can get in touch with him again. In his letter, Neville refers to holding a piece of parachute ripcord from the crashed Heinkel Bomber. I donated the rip cord to Immingham museum, which my Grandfather, Albert Edward Hopkinson, (who was a Lieutenant in the Home Guard) cut from the wreckage.
Best regards,
David.
Rod said,
October 6, 2009 @ 9:28 am
Hi David,
thanks for the comment and welcome to the site - we should be able to get contact through the site for you.
I don’t store people’s email addresses etc but a comment should get him sooner or later.
Best
Rod
Rod said,
October 6, 2009 @ 9:30 am
Neville !
please see comment above
Best
Rod
David J. Smith said,
October 6, 2009 @ 10:05 am
Thanks Rod, much appreciated.
By the way, did you ever find the Lancaster, Miss Venus? I’d love to see that. I used to spend a lot of my time with an Aircraft Preservation Society which used to stand on the site now used by Pleasure Island and knew many crash sites in the ares, but haven’t heard of that one.
Regards
David
chris keyworth said,
October 6, 2009 @ 11:54 am
David
this is the grid for Miss Venus TA 0410 1135
Regards
Chris
David J. Smith said,
October 6, 2009 @ 12:02 pm
That’s excellent. Thank you Chris. I’ll look forward to paying the site a visit.
Best regards,
David
Rod said,
October 6, 2009 @ 1:51 pm
David,
this is the grid for Miss Venus TA 0410 1135
That’s what’s known as the CK express service - go to that spot with absolute confidence as well !
Best
Rod
David J. Smith said,
October 6, 2009 @ 7:00 pm
Thanks Rod. I’ll buy myself an Ordnance Survey Map tomorrow and pay the site a visit. Thanks again to yourself and Chris. I must admit, I’d resigned myself to two years searching in the undergrowth with a shovel and a flashlight!
Regards
David
Rod said,
October 6, 2009 @ 7:06 pm
David,
if that’s were Chris says it is then it’ll be there !
He’s had me all over Lincolnshire with some fine suggestions and never a ‘bum steer’ yet !
I once faltered and had a brief doubt, weirdly enough in Stallingborough churchyard, but I just hadn’t looked hard enough
Cheers
Rod
Amiguru said,
October 6, 2009 @ 7:42 pm
Hi Rod & David,
I’ve known Dave man-and-boy as they say. He used to show a keen interest in archaeology from the age of a13 or 14 when he used to visit me when I was Assistant Curator of Immingham Museum in the old building, (opposite the Bluey to those who know the area). He and a mate of his, sorry can’t remember his name, stood out as being the ‘right’ kind of youths, not intent on looking for trouble. I, of course encouraged their interest in things past and it has obviously stood Dave in good stead. The last time we were in touch was when he was working on the N. Sea oil rigs as a young man.
Good to hear from you Dave and I hereby give Rod permission to pass on my e-mail address to you. Then we will be able to catch up a bit on the last 40! years. I can’t imagine you as a ‘mature’ man but of course tempus fugit for all of us ;?) I wonder how many of my old mates will come out of the woodwork in due course…..
Regards,
Neville
Post scriptum: thank you Mine Host for the ‘Golden Gag’ award.
Rod said,
October 7, 2009 @ 9:03 am
David,
I’ve emailed you Neville’s address
Best
Rod
David J. Smith said,
October 8, 2009 @ 8:24 am
Hi Rod, Chris.
First I’d like to say thank you for passing my message on to Neville. We have made contact again after some 30 odd years, and it’s all thanks to your great website. Really appreciated.
Secondly, I have obtained an Ordnance survey Map and plan to visit the crash site of Miss Venus, probably this Sunday. I wondered if I need the land owners permission to do this?
Regards to you both,
David
chris keyworth said,
October 8, 2009 @ 8:56 am
hi yes you will need to go up to elsham hall to get permision the site is however very overgrown at the moment you would be better waiting until the undergrowth has all died down..
regards
chris
David J. Smith said,
October 8, 2009 @ 9:36 am
Ok Chris, thanks. I’ll leave it for a while. Is there much wreckage visable at the site?
Regards,
Dave
chris keyworth said,
October 8, 2009 @ 3:02 pm
dave if you schedule it for a weekend and come pick me up in immingham i can get you axcess through my friends farm up at elsham plus ive already got permission to search the area so no need to go up to the big house then. it is tricky to get into that part of the wood from elsham but i know a easy route into the site, there isnt a great deal to see unfortunatly as the plain broke up on impact but if i take my detector with me it will help to find it as long as we dont dig on the site we will be ok, it isnt classed as a war grave but i would like to treat it as one as a man did loose his life there
regards
chris
David J. Smith said,
October 8, 2009 @ 4:12 pm
Hi Chris. That’s brilliant. I could pick you up no problem. I live near Little London, so not too far away from you.
I fully understand about respecting these crash sites, and like you, think they should be treated with care.
When would be the best time for you to go?
Regards,
Dave
chris keyworth said,
October 8, 2009 @ 4:19 pm
any weekend is fine with me Dave as long as you give me a bit of notice so i can arrange for my dog to be looked after
regards
chris
David J. Smith said,
October 8, 2009 @ 5:07 pm
Ok Chris. I’ll be in touch.
All the best
Dave
Matthew said,
October 21, 2009 @ 9:13 pm
Brilliant site so enjoyed reading through this thread. I live in Immingham and work at Killingholme docks on the humber sea terminal. I have seen the old jettys and had heard was a ww2 sea plane base. Didint know about the sub pen and the aviation fuel dump?. Great job on finding the old lanc we should never forget these sites and planes and the brave men that gave their lives for us all. Really enjoyed the read keep up the good work !!
Rod said,
October 22, 2009 @ 8:26 am
Matthew,
thanks for the taking the time to comment and welcome to the site - hope you’ll return.
There’s plenty more to come so keep tuning in, hopefully some stuff in and around your neck of the woods as well.
Thanks again Matthew
All the best
Rod
chris keyworth said,
October 22, 2009 @ 12:23 pm
Hi Rod
found another heavy gun inplacement recently at TA 1360 1900 East Halton. pattern seems the same as stallingborough……
Regards
Chris
Rod said,
October 22, 2009 @ 12:42 pm
Chris,
that’s fantastic - many thanks - I’m there !
In fact I’m looking at the sky right now . . .
Best
Rod
chris keyworth said,
October 22, 2009 @ 12:54 pm
on this subject ive located this set of pages a very interesting read and i think overlooked by us all on this subject..
http://www.17balloons.co.uk/pages/page-07.html
regards
chris
simon said,
December 15, 2009 @ 11:18 pm
fantastic site didnt know about miss venus i live at barton would love to see this site is it easy to acsess
NEAL said,
January 12, 2010 @ 5:49 pm
hi Chris, very interested in visiting the crash site of Miss veuns…as i and my wife are very keen on ww2 aircraft…but we have no idea where to start looking..do you have any suggestions?….thanks…neal…
chris keyworth said,
January 12, 2010 @ 9:21 pm
a good start is the one on brocklesby park mentioned here previously, i am happy to take you up to the site of the Miss venus crash site after the shooting season has finished
regards
chris
NEAL said,
January 13, 2010 @ 8:04 pm
Thanks Chris, that would be fantastic…just let me know when its convenient for you…cheers…
mmmmmm said,
January 25, 2010 @ 7:30 pm
just chatting yesterday about childhood, i used to live in Little London. (am nearly 45, so dont remember the wars!)
Me and a group of friends use to play on the “battlefield” as we called it,that was before the wood and the horses, though i did hack my own pony through the “battlefield”.
As you entered the “battlefield” from the road, behind what is now some stables, there was a well kept grassy mound with a lid on. There was a sign saying ministry of defence PRIVATE.. so we didnt go near that. There was always cars coming and going, We saw people coming and going, evidence of it still being used, as for what i dont know.I and my friends were more intrested in play, to us it was just a big playground
chris keyworth said,
January 25, 2010 @ 7:41 pm
very interesting… sounds like a hidden bunker we didnt find..
chris keyworth said,
January 25, 2010 @ 7:53 pm
mmmmmm, would this mound be large and square by any chance
regards
chris
chris keyworth said,
February 7, 2010 @ 7:13 pm
the new picture above should shed a bit more light on this site
regards
chris
Rod said,
February 7, 2010 @ 7:44 pm
Chris,
any idea of the date of the photograph ?
Best
Rod
chris keyworth said,
February 7, 2010 @ 7:48 pm
i would say late 40s early 50s but not certain…
regards
chris
Rod said,
February 7, 2010 @ 7:53 pm
Chris,
that fits exactly with my thoughts - I had 1947 in mind !
Cheers
Rod
chris keyworth said,
February 7, 2010 @ 8:03 pm
just overlayed it on google earth fits almost perfectly ive emailed it to you..
David J. Smith said,
February 7, 2010 @ 8:23 pm
Chris, interesting aerial photo. I wondered if you know what the small buildings linked by a series of roads are slightly to the north of the gun emplacements. Also there are what looks like huts of some description to the east of those. Would it be the Army camp do you think? If you look at the same area with Google maps, you can just make out on the same field where these buildings were.
Regards
Dave
chris keyworth said,
February 7, 2010 @ 8:30 pm
yes just been studying it all it is almost certainly a military instalation or camp of some sorts the three huts in the north of the field i think are for housing search lights there rest lok like barrack buildings, its nice to see the original gun emplacements in the middle of the field too.
chris keyworth said,
February 7, 2010 @ 10:18 pm
Just a thought ive been bannding around in my head but is anyone interested in setting up a historical preservation society for the stallingborough battery we may be able to aquire it if we do….
regards
chris..
David J. Smith said,
February 8, 2010 @ 8:26 am
Good idea Chris, I’m game. After all, it’s in a field just behind my house.
Dave
Rod said,
February 8, 2010 @ 9:32 am
Chris,
there is huge interest in this site. This page gets more visitors than any other on a similar theme
Best
Rod
chris keyworth said,
February 8, 2010 @ 12:24 pm
any ideas of how we can go abouty it as ive never done that sort of thing before
regards
chris
David J. Smith said,
February 8, 2010 @ 1:03 pm
I’ve no idea Chris. I suppose the first step is to find out who owns the land.
Dave
chris keyworth said,
February 8, 2010 @ 1:15 pm
that one is easy its Strawsons i believe at Burnham, i think we need to get a commitee together first then work out the best way to approach Peter Strawson and arrange a site visit with him to discus our intentions for the site i beleive at this moment in time it is salvageable and can be still used for public viewing..
regards
chris
Rod said,
February 8, 2010 @ 6:43 pm
Chris,
does public viewing mean public liability insurance - I suspect so, that could be a real nightmare
Best
Rod
chris keyworth said,
February 8, 2010 @ 7:07 pm
shouldnt be a problem, if i can get it for paintballing i can get it for anything lol PLI dunt phase me in the slightest….
regards
chris
Len Copsey said,
March 5, 2010 @ 10:33 am
I was a Gunner in the 92 HAA Regiment, RA, stationed at the ex-Royal Navy Barracks, Immingham Dock near Grimsby circa August 1947, we trained in Gun drill at the Stallinbourgh Gun Site, there were four 5.25inch bore Heavy Anti Aircraft Guns on site, each Gun was in a concrete emplacement and underneath the Gun were living quarters, a Gunfitters & Limber gunners workshop, basic cooking facilitys also a toilet area, more later. Len Copsey.
Rod said,
March 5, 2010 @ 11:49 am
Len
many thanks for the comment and welcome to the site.
That is absolutely fabulous, not only myself but many others will be fascinated by this - it’s exactly the kind of information this article needs
Thanks again Len
All the best
Rod
Len Copsey said,
March 5, 2010 @ 9:04 pm
Re-my first post, your pic of the Gun holding down bolts also shows the compartments in the concrete surround, the 90lb projectiles (shell) were placed in there also the 56lb cordite explosive cartridge case so that as the Gun traversed to follow it target ammunition was always to hand on its 360 degree turning circle, the shell was passed up to the fuse setter, and placed in the trough with the cartridge behind moved over to the ramming position and brought back this was all done to chanting numbers = seconds of time until you reached as fast as possible, the Gun was operated by Hydraulic Pump powered by a Crossley Diesel Engine which were bastards to start, going to look for a photo, more later. Len Copsey.
chris keyworth said,
March 5, 2010 @ 9:12 pm
very impressed Len, true gritt what do you say Rod?
regards
chris
Little Brother said,
March 5, 2010 @ 11:24 pm
Len,
It’s great to hear what you have to say on this, I know that this is what Rod was hoping for and it should never be forgotten. I, for one hope you stick around.
Kind regards
Miles
Rod said,
March 6, 2010 @ 8:03 am
Len,
it just gets better - details like that are absolutely superb. The only people who know this are those who were there and it is, I believe, vital that we preserve, remember and treasure this sort of information.
Every snippet is gold dust Len - I should be more thna happy to put any pictures up should you wish Len.
Many thanks again
Kind Regards
Rod
Rod said,
March 6, 2010 @ 8:06 am
Chris,
absolutely !
As i keep saying when I write visits up, I wonder who went here before me and what they did - how did their lives differ from my cushy existence. Well, thanks to Len we now have an idea of what went on here.
It’s absolutely fascinating - though I don’t need to tell you that Chris - I’m sure
Best wishes
Rod
Len Copsey said,
March 6, 2010 @ 9:59 pm
The Regiment had 4 Batterys, i was in 271Batt, each was responsible for one 5.25 AA Gun, beside training on it had to cleaned inside & out and the Gun barrel bore being given the same as a rifle barrel pull through only this barrel was done with a set of big diameter bamboo rods one of which had brushes set in spiral pattern this was pushed into the breech block end of the barrel the rest of the rods connected in the same way as chimney sweeps brushes and worked forward & back until the barrel was clean then lightly oiled, task complete. Those reading my memories might have noticed that i always write “gun” with a capital “G” this because the Guns are the Royal Artillery`s Coulers the same as other Army regiments. Battle flags & Standards, next post i will tell of our night excercise at Stallinborough. 19189955 Gunner Len Copsey.
chris keyworth said,
March 6, 2010 @ 11:03 pm
Great input Len i am truely facinated keep it coming
regards
chris
ex 26 Sqn, 63 Sqn RAF Reg and 22 Sabre Squadron
Rod said,
March 7, 2010 @ 9:04 am
Len,
this is truly fascinating - I really can’t tell you how much this is appreciated - it simply couldn’t be better.
Please do keep it coming.
Many thanks Len
Rod
David Smith said,
March 7, 2010 @ 1:12 pm
Interesting stuff from Len Copsey. It’d be great if we could meet him at the site and have him give us a guided tour! If he still lives locally, that is. How about it Len?
Dave
Rod said,
March 7, 2010 @ 4:21 pm
Len has very kindly sent me a picture of the exact type of the 5.25″ gun that was in use at Stallingborough.
In Len’s words:
the pic is of a 5:25in Anti Aircraft on sunny
Gibralter!!!, the Stallinbourgh Guns were painted dark green and in a
different emplacment windy, Lincolnshire, will be in touch again Cheers Len.
First hand knowledge - better than any book or website !
Thanks again Len
All the best
Rod
Len Copsey said,
March 7, 2010 @ 5:20 pm
Hello David Smith, Sorry Dave, i live in built up Brum, well not built up in Sheldon where i live, when i was told i was being posted to Grimsby i thought it was to the end of the earth!!, but discovered they were nice friendly people, Cheers Len.
David Smith said,
March 7, 2010 @ 5:31 pm
Great photo. It makes you realise just how big the Guns were. My mother has told me that when these Guns started firing, you really knew about it. I’m only too pleased I wasn’t on the receiving end.
Looking forward to Len’s night time experience.
Best regards
Dave
David Smith said,
March 7, 2010 @ 5:43 pm
Hi Len, thanks for your reply.
The Gun emplacement is about 500 yards from where I live and I often take my dogs for a walk there. Visiting the old site always makes me wonder what it must have been like when it was in operation. Your input to Rod’s great web site is a welcome addition as I’m sure Rod will agree. I believe the Gun site is one of the most visited on his pages.
All the best
Dave
chris keyworth said,
March 7, 2010 @ 6:48 pm
great pic Len
i was wondering exactly what they look like and so where many others, i know Rod has said this but im going to say it again ” PURE GOLD DUST “, I have rushed home after a grueling 35 mile bike ride part of my fitness program and logged straight on and i am really pleased i did well worth the rush thanks Len
Regards
Chris..
Rod said,
March 7, 2010 @ 7:40 pm
Chris, (reposted because I didn’t address it)
Don’t be thinking your second to last comment passed me by !!!
Best
Rod
chris keyworth said,
March 7, 2010 @ 7:56 pm
thought it may grab somones attention Rod dont share your Research…63 is the route in after three years…
regards
chris….
Len Copsey said,
March 7, 2010 @ 9:35 pm
And so it came, the night excercise, we lowly Gunners were not consulted, be on parade at 13:00hrs in FSMO (field service marching order) Kit, which was big pack with ground sheet, blanket and greatcoat on top, small pack containing razor, shaving brush,soap not forgetting eating irons,knife, fork,spoon etc, gas mask, small arms ammo pouches weighing around 48lbs, no rifle, not issued, at this point i should tell we did`nt have studs in the soles of our boots, then mount the Bedford QL lorries and off we go to Stallinborough all S/Lieutenants Battery C/O`s, all the Sgts, Bombers, L/Bombadiers, Army Catering Corp Cooks, every thing to set up a fun night out, to be continued Cheers Len.
Rod said,
March 8, 2010 @ 8:22 am
Len,
fantastic - not only is it very special to have someb0ody wo was there telling us this but I am particularly drawn to the small details such as FSMO, studs in boots and the type of lorries. This detail is not only fascinating but hugely important and has now been preserved for the future.
Love it Len - waiting for the next ‘episode’
In appreciation
Rod
Len Copsey said,
March 8, 2010 @ 11:01 pm
When we went for regular training we would go directly to the Guns and did`nt see the huts that were used when it was WW2 for the overnight exercise dismounted from the lorries at the huts which were in need of a lot of work so we were put to work cleaning out the huts which were to be our billet, there was no glass in any of the windows and some doors were missing, just across the road way were lots of corrugated iron sheets, one of the Officers had a small dog wich was running round the sheets we were told to lift them and rats ran every were i don`t think the dog caught even one!. We had our teatime food by then it was getting dark some temporary lighting was on mainly paraffin hurricane lamps and bedded down for the night. Morning 6:am breakfast, the cooks had been up since 5:am getting it cooked, then down to the Guns remove covers and stand by Battery Gun Battery/Sgt shouts the order “TAKE POST!!!” No 1 who fires the Gun, 2 fuse setter 3 elevation 4 traverse 5 shell loader & rammer 6 cartridge loader mount the Gun, ammunition handlers take position round the Gun five or ten all change every Gunner has a spell in each task, this carried on until dinner about 1:30 pm and then exercise over clear up, pack up and back to Immingham and a bath & our own beds, Good night all i am quite worn out. Len.
Femme Fatale said,
March 9, 2010 @ 8:03 am
To all,
This post came in very handy for my sons homework,
Thank you all for the great information.
FF
xx
Rod said,
March 9, 2010 @ 8:32 am
Len,
that’s fabulous. I wonder, was there a permanent guard stationed there ?
Also, if not, were the guns ‘disabled’ in any way when not required to be ready ?
Best
Rod
Len Copsey said,
March 9, 2010 @ 1:41 pm
I hope this Link works, it is the GDA (Gun Defence Area) for the Humber area. Len. file:///C:/Users/Leonard/Downloads/humber.html
Len Copsey said,
March 9, 2010 @ 3:35 pm
Rod, When i had passed my HA Gunfitters trade course i worked on a Gunsite on the esplanade at New Brighton, Merseyside.circa 1949 the four 5:25 Guns were inside a Ministry of Defence 15foot high so called”unclimbable fence” and a caretaker had a key to the gates who we would phone to unlock before i arrived, the Guns were disabled by the sea waves which crashed over the sea wall approx 25 to 30 yards away & made rust holes in the steel pipes which brought the hydraulic oil pressure from the pump apart from that there was no ammunition!!, and it took 3 men to start the Crossley Diesel Engine, two turned the starting handle and the ERA (Engine Room Attendant) to operate the starter when the turn over was right and our ERA a Worcester lad was brill!!!. Len.
chris keyworth said,
March 9, 2010 @ 4:37 pm
Hi Len
The link will not work it is local to your hard drive only, perhaps if it is a picture you may want to attach it to an email and send it direct to Rod..
Regards
Chris…
Rod said,
March 9, 2010 @ 5:43 pm
Hi Len,
thanks for the reply, very interesting. I just wondered because without security . . .
I imagine there must have been a lot of ordnance kicking about here and there after the war, shell, plus access to gun and knowing how to fire it would equal a big bang somewhere !
Best
Rod
Len Copsey said,
March 9, 2010 @ 11:57 pm
Edit by site owner.
Some information kindly suppied by Len is to be used in a separate article - many thanks Len
Regards
Rod
Len Copsey said,
March 10, 2010 @ 7:18 pm
Hi every one, we reached the Gunsite by a narrow lane just about wide enough for a Bedford lorry at the end was a locked gate, gate unlocked and we drove to the Guns, there must have been a farmer? who had access too, because the grass was cut when it got to long. Len.
Rod said,
March 10, 2010 @ 7:33 pm
Len,
I think that’s still the same now, there are horse stables and the like there now, buildings initially to the left I think as you go in.
Best
Rod
PS, in the box marked URI you’ve probably got ‘none’ or something in there did you want to erase that so the URI box is left comepletely empty - it’ll stop trying to make a link out of your name then
PPS
here’s some of the other sites I’ve been to Len - lest you or others haven’t seen them yet
http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/kirmington-bunkers-a-look-at-the-extensive-remains-of-wartime-buildings
http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/east-halton-world-war-2-anti-aircraft-battery-balloon-site
http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/brocklesby-memorial-arch-brocklesby-wartime-bunkers
Len Copsey said,
March 12, 2010 @ 7:26 am
Hi Rod, I have looked the sites very interesting. Len.
Rod said,
March 12, 2010 @ 9:24 am
Hi Len,
many thnaks , now the weather’s turning hope to get a few more visited and written up
Best
Rod
Len Copsey said,
March 12, 2010 @ 10:20 am
On the aerial photo to left of the Guns is a sand bagged ptotected enclosure this is the command post in it would be the predictor & a range finder and the fire control Officers who gave the order to fire by telephone to the Gun commanders 1,2,3 or 4 or all together as a barrage, a direct hit was always a bonus the main idea was to cause the enemy to fly high and make it difficult for them to identify and hit the target.
History Hunter said,
March 16, 2010 @ 12:25 pm
just to save me trawling thru the whole of this post again, access to the artillery site is best where? Thru the stables area? Is there any ‘private land’ areas to keep away from?
David Smith said,
March 19, 2010 @ 12:10 pm
Hi Chris.
I’m still looking forward to finding ‘Miss Venus’ with you, but currently out of the country until end April. Is that still ok with you?
Regards
Dave
chris keyworth said,
March 19, 2010 @ 1:07 pm
yes fine mate
Mike Shackel said,
March 25, 2010 @ 5:14 pm
The aerial photo explains why Colin Dobinson lists in his gazetteer of AA batteries, two Stallingborough sites, one without a site code and another, H20, which is the 5.25 site. I must be almost a contemporary of you Len. I was with 97th HAA at Crownhill, Plymouth but our 5.25s were still not installed when released in 1949. Nevertheless we had our moments with them at Weyborne (practice camp) and demolished a sea target with our first round. I am sure you would agree that the 5.25 was a superb weapon and very different from the bog-standard 3.7. As a teenager, i well remember during the later blitz, the installed twin-barrelled 5.25 on Wimbledon Common used to blast off from time-to-time making our windows rattle in Banstead, a good ten miles away. But it was OK in the shield firing the beast, wasn’t it?
Rod said,
March 26, 2010 @ 8:01 am
Mike,
many thanks for the insightful comment and welcome to the site.
It’s superb to hear from people like you and Len, your experiences are so valuable the deserve to be preserved and not forgotten.
Also what you say about the two sites is very interesting
Thankks again Mike
Best
Rod
Mike Shackel said,
March 27, 2010 @ 10:58 am
Rod
Good to have your response. One thing interesting but puzzling about Stallingborough is the positioning of the 5.25s. The layout of the emplacements faces south-west whereas one would have expected air attacks to approach from the east or south-east. Maybe some constraints on the site decided the orientation.
I am not completely ‘up’ with all the site contributions about HAA but the notes I have show that there were 5.25 sites at Preston (Hull), Wawne Road (Sutton) and Boothferry Road (Hull). The first two, plus Stallingborough, were listed as operational in November 1944. Stone Creek is a smaller calibre gun site you can see on Google Earth looking fairly well preserved. There are many other Humber GDA sites listed so those interested could be kept busy and out of mischief! I live in London so I can be let off the search.
Mike
chris keyworth said,
March 27, 2010 @ 11:57 am
The concret emplacements at stallingborough are from what i can gather later post war gun emplacements for the deterent against the Russians
Regards
Chris
Rod said,
March 27, 2010 @ 12:26 pm
Mike,
I’m afraid I can’t explain the positioning of the guns - perhaps somebody else can weigh in and help.
As to there being plenty of other sites Mike - I hope to be visiting them in the coming months and recording them all as I’ve done this one
Best
Rod
Len Copsey said,
April 1, 2010 @ 8:28 pm
I would like to take you back to when i traveled to the Royal Warwicks Regiment, Budbrooke Barracks near Warwick by train from Acocks Green station nearly all 18yr olds to face our first day as Army Privates, nearly all thin and very few if any lads, rationing was still in force and we had lived through the heavy bombing of Brum including on which went on for 13hours there was`nt much meat on our bones i only weighed 9st:2lbs and was 5ft:10.5 lbs tall, most of us had never been away from home even on holiday, this memory continues to when i was posted to Immingham Dock, 92 HAA Regiment Brks. if it is of interest to you Rod & every one else i will continue it.
History Hunter said,
April 1, 2010 @ 8:32 pm
Indeed i think there could be a booklet coming, headed under the local history of the area
Please continue Len
chris keyworth said,
April 2, 2010 @ 12:05 am
bring it on please Len
regards
chris
Rod said,
April 2, 2010 @ 8:07 am
Len,
it would be an honour and a pleasure, I can’t wait to read more
Many thanks, as always
Rod
Len Copsey said,
April 2, 2010 @ 3:50 pm
Thanks to all hope i don`t bore you!, We where met with transport to the barracks the Bedford QL Lorry the Army traveled every in them, off we went and got our first food 2 large boiled spud+2 large sausages pork or Beef i don`t know, i ate a bit of potatoe but for some one who had only eaten his Mom`s it was not to my liking. Hut allocation. you were allowed to choose to join your friends in a hut, inside there were steel beds with a pillow & 3 mattress “biscuits” which when laid end to end formed a full length mattress and wood kit locker, 2 coke burning pot bellied stoves which were standard Army heating in all the huts i lived in. Uniform & kit issue queue formed in the Quarter/Masters store, you were looked at and given 2 battledress tops plus trousers, shirts, vests, underpants, socks, boots two of each, safety razor & shaving brush, greatcoat, plastic cap badge, webbing big pack, small pack, ammunition pouches, belt. gaitors & housewife, to be continued.
Rod said,
April 2, 2010 @ 4:33 pm
Len,
this is the stuff - superb - you can’t buy this kind of information - it’s so interesting and also vital to preserve it.
It also enables people to look at these former military sites and see something other than old brickwork and concrete.
Thanks so much for taking the time to share this Len
Best wishes
Rod
Len Copsey said,
April 2, 2010 @ 11:39 pm
Re previous post, Forgot the beret and 3 blankets & 2 pillow cases,no sheets issued, i think the RAF “Brylcreem Boys” were issued with sheets.
History Hunter said,
April 3, 2010 @ 12:39 pm
I have just been having a look on this website http://www.lostbombers.co.uk/ to see if i can find any details of either the Miss Venus at Elsham or the crash site in Brocklesby Woods but cant find sight nor sound of either of them. Can anyone point me in the right direction on details of either of the planes please.
Len Copsey said,
April 3, 2010 @ 6:54 pm
HI Chris Keyworth, Your observation about the Stallinborough site emplacments being set up against Russians, is i think misplaced, because the Guns had been fired and were in place before i was posted to the 92 HAA Regiment in August 1947, Gunners at the Immingham Brks were a mix of regular soldiers & N/S conscripted men some had been there from 1945 and possibly earlier.
chris keyworth said,
April 3, 2010 @ 7:38 pm
Len i was going on the later applications as there is a cold war bunker there which was only decomisioned in the late 70s part of the ROC …
regards
chris
chris keyworth said,
April 3, 2010 @ 7:41 pm
Tony
they are both on there try LM131 LANCASTER and similare for the brocklesby plane..
regards
chris
Len Copsey said,
April 3, 2010 @ 9:06 pm
Hi Mike Shackel, The 5.25 Guns were put into service in 1943?, but they were in short supply because of the size of the engineering metal work and then the site had to be selected & the emplacement dug out for the engine room and hydraulic pump, living quarters for the Gunners & surround to store the shells and cartridges all built in hopefully blast proof 6in thick concrete. how long it took to build a 4 Gun site with ancillery positions i can`t imagine.
Len Copsey said,
April 3, 2010 @ 9:24 pm
Hi Mike, My Regiment was at Weybourne firing camp Sept/Oct 1947, it was a dump, no mains sanitation just buckets, sleeping in Bell tents, hurricane lamps to see by.
History Hunter said,
April 4, 2010 @ 12:18 am
Well ive managed to find the Grannington Park, Brocklesby Estate Lancaster crash
Lancaster ME442 Information
Type Lancaster
Serial Number ME442
Squadron 44
X1D KM-V
Operation Ladbergen
Date 1 3rd March 1945
Date 2 4th March 1945
Further Information
“Serial range ME295 - ME551 This aircraft was one of 200 Lancasters ordered from A.V.roe (Yeadon) in May42 and built as 44 Mk.1 and 156 Mk.111, mixed, from Oct44 to Mar45. Merlin 22 engines were fitted in Mk.1s, and in Mk.111s, Merlin 38 engines up to ME376 and Merlin 224 engines thereafter. ME442 was a Mk.111 and was delivered to 44 Sqdn 30Jan45. ME442 took part in the Key Operation against Karlsruhe 2/3Feb45. One of twenty RAF bombers shot down in the UK by Intruders from the Luftwaffe Operation Gisella. Airborne 1842 3Mar45 from spilsby to attack the Dortmund-Ems Canal at Ladbergen. Homebound and in UK airspace, picked up by an Intruder and shot down 0100 4Mar45 to crash amongst trees in Grannington Park on the Brocklesby Estate near Grimsby, Lincolnshire. F/O Ryan and Sgt Birch are buried in Cambridge City Cemetery; the others are buried in their home towns, the two air Gunners both coming from Liverpool. F/O J.J.F.Ryan RAAF KIA Sgt T.H.Jarman KIA F/S R.R.Russell KIA F/S H.J.Terry KIA Sgt H.Birch KIA Sgt H.Payne KIA Sgt W.H.Rogan KIA ”
Still looking for the Miss Venus though. Do we have a date when it crashed?
History Hunter said,
April 4, 2010 @ 12:23 am
Seek and ye shall find……
Lancaster LM131 Information
Type Lancaster
Serial Number LM131
Squadron 103
X1D PM-V
Operation Dortmund
Date 1 12th March 1945
Date 2 12th March 1945
Further Information
“Serial Range LL617 - LM296 This aircraft was one of 450 Lancasters ordered from Armstrong Whitworth aircraft Apr42 and delivered as 100 Mk.11s (LL617- LL731) with Hercules XV1 engines and 350 Mk.1s (LL740-LM296) with 24 engines initially installed. LM131 was delivered to 103 Sqdn 18May44. LM131 took part in the following key Operations; Dortmund 22/23May44; Aachen 27/28May44; Stuttgart 28/29Jul44; Stettin 29/30Aug44; Essen 12/13Dec44; Munich 7/8Jan45; Dresden 13/14Feb45; Dortmund 12Mar45. Abandoned on return near Elsham Lincs. When lost this aircraft had a total of 198 hours. Airborne 1303 from Elsham Wolds. Struck by a bomb which became embedded in the mainplanes. On regaining the Lincolnshire coast, the crew baled out leaving their crippled Lancaster to fall near the village of Elsham, 9 miles ENE of Scunthorpe. Sgt Carter’s body was found nearby, his parachute having failed to deploy. he is buried in Denton (St.Margaret) New Churchyard. F/O B.F.Wright RCAF Sgt F.E.Carter KIA W/O J.Coulson F/S G.R.Tracey RCAF Sgt B.heath F/S K.Coleman F/S A.J.Bocinfuso RCAF “
History Hunter said,
April 4, 2010 @ 12:33 am
Thats it…..im hooked now. Anybody know anything about this one?
Lancaster W4857 Information
Type Lancaster
Serial Number W4857
Squadron 103
X1D PM-V
Operation Training
Date 1 27th February 1943
Date 2 27th February 1943
Further Information
“Serial Range W4761 - W5012 This aircraft was one of 200 Lancasters ordered from Metro-Vick in 1940 and built as 170 lancaster Mk.1s (W4761-W4982) with Merlin 20 engines and 30 Mk.111s (W4983-W5012) with Merlin 28 engines from sep42 to may43. They were transported to woodford for final assembly and flight testing. W4857 was delivered to 103 Sqdn 31Jan43. W4857 took part in the following Key Operations: Lorient 13/14Feb43; Nuremburg 25/26Feb43. Abandoned by the crew following partial failure of the tail assembly. F/L Stubbs then attempted to land the aircraft, but crashed into a wood in the grounds of Elsham Hall near Brigg, Lincolnshire. He was cremated at Hull Crematorium and his name is commemorated on a memorial wall erected in Hull Northern Cemetery. Details of his DFM, gained while flying Wellingtons with No.75 Sqdn, were Gazetted 11Feb41. F/L R.N.Stubbs DFC DFM KIA F/O E.C.Lee-Brown ”
“crashed into a wood in the grounds of Elsham Hall”. Anybody know anything other than whats here?
chris keyworth said,
April 4, 2010 @ 10:38 am
X1D PM-V went down close to elsham village north west of LM131..
History Hunter said,
April 4, 2010 @ 11:48 pm
Thanks Chris. looking on Google Earth there arent many areas “in the grounds of Elsham Hall” and also close to Elsham village, so that certainly narrows the options! You dont have any co-ords do you?
chris keyworth said,
April 5, 2010 @ 12:58 am
see above for LM131 grids..
Vicky said,
April 5, 2010 @ 10:16 pm
I’ve lived in Keelby for most of my life and knew nothing of this site until recent months. Yesterday we went down to check it out (literally 3 minutes down the road!) and it is fascinating.
Considering we learned about local history at primary school… like what is now the library used to be the school, etc, they’re missing a trick with this.
Maybe it’s just my imagination but I’m sure there’s more to it than meets the eye… why only part demolish it? Are they trying to hide something -what’s with the distinct lack of info?
It’s amazing what adventures are hidden on your doorstep.
Rod said,
April 6, 2010 @ 8:22 am
Vicky,
thanks for the comment and welcome to the site - hope you’ll return
I couldn’t agree more with everything you’ve said, it should be a well-known place and indeed preserved.
What a great way also to teach children something of those times - they’d lap up a field trip I’m sure.
I’ll be revisiting soon myself I suspect
All the best
Rod
Mike Shackel said,
April 7, 2010 @ 4:28 pm
Interesting to read what Vicky had to say. I think I can almost cap it! Not more than 15 miles from Central London, a gun site, fully built including housings for generators and four emplacements for 3.7in mk 6 guns, in the middle of a field, easily visible from public road. Couldn’t find any locals who knew about it — local history society unaware. Tripped over it myself whilst recording for the Defence of Britain project in 2000. Now this was a cold war (Nucleus) site, part of operation IGLOO (nice connection with cold war) and the site received almost everything except the guns and accommodation for crews. There was interest from English Heritage (but no money I think) when I advised them of the site via DofB project. So there it still sits, now gently rotting away, which I suppose is fair enough. After all it didn’t see action, so no great stories to tell, just a bit sad that not much local interest aroused. Now if it had been Roman . . . ah, well.
History Hunter said,
April 7, 2010 @ 8:03 pm
Mike….any chance of some coordinates so we can have a look on Google Earth or multimap?
chris keyworth said,
April 7, 2010 @ 8:57 pm
stallingborough is also part of IGLOO as are the sites at donnington on bain caistor ludford and hemswell
regards
chris
Jed said,
April 20, 2010 @ 11:21 am
The Humberside Aircraft Preservation Society used to be it the car park at Elsham Hall in the 70’s, I went on a dig on a lancaster in elsham woods, I can’t remember the details, the crash site was down a steep slope with debris down the whole slope, the aircraft came to a halt at the bottom and burnt out, most of the recovered item were burnt, guages and buckles were mainly found and melted alloys/perspex. It was an isolated site so no chance of attending the fire, the major componenets must have been recovered by the RAF.
The site at Little London, my uncle was there during the war, he did not tell much about what went on there during the war, but told me a story about it’s usage after the war. The police came to him looking for one of his soldiers as he was a suspect for a spate of house burgularies, they wanted to know what he could tell them about him that could help to find him, he told them about the site at Little London and that he was there during the war. The police went there and found him living there and the place was like Aladins cave with all the silver and paintings he had stolen.
Caistor, the salutation inn, I think it was this pub, used to have a direct line to the MOD, on top of the pub was an air raid siren, for use if there was a War during the cold war period and was still there and operational long after the missile site was disbanded as far as I can remember it was at least still in use into the early 90’s or thereabouts. A friends father was in the Raf Regiment bomb disposal during and after the war, his job after the war was to dispose of the thousands of unwanted bombs and ammunition, this was mainly buried or dumped at sea, A friend of mine dug up a handfull of .303 ammo boxes in Sth Killingholme, while digging for worms in his garden, another one whilst digging with his JCB on the corner of humber road and eastfield road found several 4 inch cartridge cases, while field walking on elsham top in the seventies we found 3 live incendry bombs unearthed by a plough, this was on the airfield site, all of these sites are close to the airfileds so it is obvious they did not go far to hide the war time munitions.
Most crash sites have live ammo so be careeful as it is unstable now, The seaplane jetty in killingholme always used to unearth an abundance of ammo with the spring tides at the tide low point and may other artifacts, oil can tops, turnbuckles, pipes and other metal aircraft parts, the hangars from this site were relocated to grimsby and used as the tram station buildings, the seaplane jetty was know as RAF Habrough, not as killingholme, to confuse the enemy, the site had an oil refinery built on it , then the gas works which are both now gone, a previous writer noted that the old gas works was for storing war resevre fuel, it was used for storing JP7 fuel for the Yanks but has not been for some years now.
A lot of these sites were the areas I played in as a kid , elsham used to still have the air raid sirens still working on the hangars, and the dustbins were full of war time waste, ie mustard gas cream, goxhill was full of the green goddesses and everything used to be still in order, a farmhouse on killingholme airfield used to have a painted map of the bomb dump on the wall, this was nearly 40 years ago now so a lot has changed.
Rod said,
April 20, 2010 @ 6:54 pm
jed,
crikey - what a comment - blistering !
Many thanks indeed for taking the time and welcome to the site. Truly fascinating information - that’s exactly the sort of thing we love here.
I’ve read it twice and am about to read it again
Thanks again Jed
All the best
Rod
David Smith said,
April 21, 2010 @ 2:19 am
Hi Chris, not forgotten you. Stranded in Romania at the mo. Will be in touch when I get home, breakfast in Barney’s on me!
Dave
chris keyworth said,
April 21, 2010 @ 8:04 am
lol ok mate ports are pretty much open now..
Soupdragon said,
April 22, 2010 @ 11:48 pm
Hello everyone..
Stumbled across this site whilst looking for info on Roxton Sidings (and when were the ’sidings’ removed - but thats another story i guess)
Very interesting indeed, especially the ‘Miss Venus’ information.
With regard to the HAA site at Stallingborough. I read sometime ago about the defensive ring for the Humber Ports.. as i recall , there were many sites around the area … and further afield. Many of these still exist, apart from Stallingborough i also know of sites at Barrow Haven and Winteringham and on the north bank, Riplingham.
As I understand it, the Batterys like Winteringham and Riplingham, were positioned so as to catch the bombers as they were turning after their bombing runs
Rod said,
April 23, 2010 @ 8:38 am
SoupDragon
thanks for the comment and welcome to the site - hope you’ll return.
I’m going to look at the places you mention right now SD thanks for the information - perhaps there’s another trip in the offing !
Best wishes
Rod
Pat Ledden said,
May 7, 2010 @ 12:21 am
Hi Chris & Rod,
Thankyou so much for passing on all the fruits of your research, didn,t know of this site, absolutely fascinating reading. I am 61 yrs old and have always been amazed at the defences at Spurn Point and after a visit there last Monday and a subsequent visit to a cafe a Easington, where l purchased a book on the subject of Spurn and Godwin Battery, l have not stopped scanning various pages on the internet and visiting nearby sites with my eldest son who is now also well and truly hooked on visiting and researching these sites and the history behind them. l just wish l had taken more interest in all this when my own father was still alive, as he was a mine of information, but all your information is making up for this, so once again a big thankyou, keep up the good work.
Best Regards Pat Ledden
Rod said,
May 7, 2010 @ 9:49 am
Hi Pat,
thanks for the comment and welcome to the site - hope you’ll return as there’s plenty to see and more to come
Have you seen this one
http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/barrow-haven-anti-aircraft-battery-wwii
Best
Rod
Rod said,
May 11, 2010 @ 7:01 pm
Hi Stuart,
thanks for the comment and welcome to the site - the pictures I’ve looked at are indeed a HAA site much the same as this one.
Hope this helps a little and a nice find - looks like a great place
All the best
Rod
Stuart Graham said,
May 11, 2010 @ 10:24 pm
Thanks Rod for your help and your welcome
It’s really good to confirm that it is a HAA site. I didn’t have a clue until I found this thread. I thought the gun emplacement I found must have been for destroying incoming ships. Your bunker and gun emplacement images in this thread are the only ones similar to mine I’ve been able to find online. And it’s great to see other people find these bunkers as interesting as me
Is the square turret bit with windows that sticks up on the bunker just for ventilation or for a lookout?
Do you think the large bunker room in my picture and in your waterlogged bunker picture housed the machinery for moving the gun? Or is it a magazine?
Your bunker has a staircase outdoors and other differences to the one I found. But both bunker interiors have the same black metal brackets on the wall. Both bunkers also have that low sloped sqare hole (yours is on the back wall in your image) - I wonder if that’s where shells were passed to the outside, or is it an access point to service the mechanisms beneath the gun?
Sorry for all the questions and over excitement!
Thanks again
Stuart
Rod said,
May 12, 2010 @ 6:49 am
Hi Stuart,
they were obviously fortified and defended - the square turrets would have been potentially for guard / defence use.
On some sites I’ve visited you can see shafts for ventillation as there’s often a great deal going on underground which is no longer always obvious today.
Other buildings on the site would have been for accomodation, storage, ammunition, command post and the like.
Best
Rod
Sam said,
July 27, 2010 @ 5:17 am
Oh dear. I am horrified and angry to find directions to my yard and fields on your website. This is private property. I wouldnt care but sadly all people seem to want to do is damage the turrets, hacking bits off, leaving litter and taking any scrap they can. If you are truly interested in the remains of these buildings, take them off your site. Plus, most of the information people have guessed at is completely wrong. I have had an influx of tresspassers and the police have been out to confront people who have thought it fun to camp out there at night or get stuck down the tunnels. Interesting that I have been here for 7 years, clearing up the beer cans and this influx occured just after this appeared on the net. Didnt it make you wonder why somebody went to the trouble of planting so many trees? Most local people dont even know whats here so please, remove the directions at least, so that we can try and keep it that way and preserve whats left.
Rod said,
July 27, 2010 @ 7:09 am
Sam,
thanks for the comment and welcome to the site.
It is hugely depressing to see how so many places get treated - I see this several times a week I’m sorry to say.
Rubbish and the like thrown all over and damage done - it’s truly depressing.
It is done mainly by teenagers I would imagine rather than people with an interest in history.
I will add a note about it being private property Sam, the following was in the original article - I’ll make that a little clearer
Please Note: There are horses and stables there and presumably the land is private but slight further down is a public footpath next to the field that goes straight to the wooded area. I’m not sure as to the rights of access to the bunkers, I saw no signs indicating you cannot go in but . . .
As to your comment Plus, most of the information people have guessed at is completely wrong
I suspect there is a lot of accurate information here Sam, can’t speak for speculative comments by others of course, but we know a lot from research and also from the invaluable information received from somebody actually there at the time.
Thanks again Sam and I’ll make it clear the site is only viewable from the Public Footpath and not to be entered
All the best
Rod
chris keyworth said,
July 27, 2010 @ 11:43 am
i was there about three weeks ago and was not a happy bunny i noticed that somone had been filling the engine rooms in with large pieces of concrete recently i reported it to the adjetent of RA Kirton who was so concerned he was straight in his car and at the site within the hour the buildings and bunkers are still owned by the MOD as to people camping in there i had a really good look around and i never saw any evidence of camping and fires and quite frankly who would want to camp in there the place is infested with type 22 b52 mozzeys, i think like rod says it is kids that would be wrecking the place not people with a genuine interest in the site like the people comenting on here, i struggle to see where these kids are comming from though as there is only half a dozen or so living localy…
regards
chris
History Hunter said,
July 27, 2010 @ 12:44 pm
When i was there there was no evidence of ‘camps’. Plenty of litter, but there always will be.
Take a look at the woods just beyond Newsham Bridge for example. Miles from anywhere and its strewn with litter AND areas of camps and camp fires.
RAF Kirmington dispersal sites are strewn everywhere with litter too. It seems if people find these hidden sites then they are going to do what ever they want to as there is nobody to check them and kick them out the area. Unfortunately the majority of the litter is non-biodegradable plastics so will be around for a long time to come, so all the sites will be ‘unsightly’ for many years to come.
Unfortunately, as Chris said, the buildings and bunkers are still owned by the MOD and if they have not banned access to them then access is allowed, especially when the ’site’ is connected directly to the public path that runs by the side of the stables and fields. Maybe the reason people trespass onto the stables land is because the public path is so overgrown is like an assault course getting down it. But then again, maybe if its kept like that then it may keep a lot more ‘undesirables’ from finding and abusing the HAA site.
Until i started using your site, i never knew about any of these sites, in fact i knew very very little about the surrounding area full stop. But now i am enlightened I will certainly do my part, as to not do as others have done, and spoil the area for others.
Rod said,
July 27, 2010 @ 1:10 pm
General comment:
It would be interesting to find out if we know for sure who owns the actual site.
I took it from the comment that Sam owned the actual site itself ?
It would also be valuable to know if owned by the MOD then is public access granted ?
As to the general question of kids I spoke to someone a while ago who told me two generations of kids have played there. He did with his local friends for years - they called it the battlefield
He says he’s told his children not to go there, a ’sign of the times’ he said, but he’s sure they ignore him.
I know of another spot which is terribly littered and is caused by the same 4 teenagers who go there in the evening on a Friday or Staurday, very sad but 4 ruin it for many others.
Interesting topic this and thanks to all who can offer an opinion
All the best
Rod
Sam said,
July 27, 2010 @ 7:35 pm
I appreciate everybody’s views and comments. This site is under the English Heritage Ref 169730 and all the information you wish to know about it is there. I understand that you all personally mean no harm to the property but please excuse my angry comments earlier- not all people are interested in the history and see it as a playground.
As for my comments about camping there- they light fires in the centre of the turrets when its not flooded, and sometimes they don’t, but they do drink and damage the property and leave litter everywhere. Newsham woods is another perfect example like you said earlier, and this too is very sad. I have turfed out a number of people from this site but I NEVER ask people to leave who are taking pictures and who are interested in the history. I just wish they would have the courtesy to ask if they can view the site if Im there. I will even open the gates up for you! Plus I wish it could be kept as quiet as possible.
As for the condition of the walkway- two weeks ago I cut it down and killed the weeds to allow walkers to pass freely. The pathway is now easily accessible .
Thank you, Samantha
Sam said,
July 27, 2010 @ 7:53 pm
Just quickly! It is called Station S and was part of the Second World War anti-aircraft defences around the humber. It was built in 1940 and upgraded in 1944 with bigger 5.25 guns. It was decommissioned around 1955 but it then became part of a nuclear fallout monitoring post 20/V2 in 1961 (ROC ), then renamed 15/B2 in October 1968. The buildings were cleared between the years 1976 and 1984 and returned to agricultural land. In 1999 an internal survey took place where it was found to still have lots of internal features including furniture! It even has a boiler room add-on which was built when women were allowed to work there when it was known as the Roxton ROC!
Samantha
Rod said,
July 27, 2010 @ 8:10 pm
Samantha,
thanks for that, very much appreciated and a great addition.
There has been a bit of confusion with the site as it never used to tally up correctly at English Heritage.
Information and grid location was always adrift.
Interesting to hear of the post war use as well Sam, I know that’s of great interest to Chris.
I did actually speak to someone who remembers it in use during the cold war. He told me:
a vehicle would arrive on Friday, two people would get out, disappear and not been seen again until Sunday !
Thanks and regards
Rod
chris keyworth said,
July 27, 2010 @ 11:46 pm
as an addition to what sam said when i was there the other week the path was clear and well cut back, i for one am happy to go down there when you are there and try and clean the site up abit as i am sure others will also its an important site and deserves some TLC..
regards
chris
History Hunter said,
July 28, 2010 @ 12:23 am
Actually Chris, while ive been hard at work today (and if you believe that youll believe anything) i thought about if it would be possible to tidy the area up and make it respectable for the type of visitor that we would prefer there, as opposed to those who have no respect for local historical sites.
I am happy to hear the pathway has been cut back….(thanks Sam)….so far, in all my ramblingsacross Lincs, that was the ONLY path on which i have been stung…..and stung i was…6 times!!!!
I may pay a visit there soon, complete with camera this time, but may, reluctantly, have to leave stealth pooch at home so i can truly appreciate the area.
Val Mercer said,
July 30, 2010 @ 6:03 pm
In answer to your question Len Copsey, as to whether these HAA Sites were permanently guarded, I think they must have been, because my dad was a military policeman (Vulnerable Points) at Winteringham Camp in WW2. This camp had the code ; Scunthorpe H8. I should be so pleased for any information about this camp which is about half a mile south of Winteringham on the way to Winterton it is, like the Stallingborough site, part of a private farm (The farmer keeps the 4 circular gun emplacements for storage for his cattle food)
I love your site, keep up the good work!
Rod said,
July 30, 2010 @ 6:58 pm
Val,
thanks for the comment and welcome to the site - I too should love to hear more about the camp or indeed anything you may know of your father’s wartime activities in the area.
If anybody knows anything about Val’s question then please do leave a comment - many thanks
Best
Rod
chris keyworth said,
July 30, 2010 @ 9:10 pm
The gridds for Vals AAA site is SE 9340 2120 just also looked on Earth and it looks in remarkable condition..
regards
chris
Val Mercer said,
July 30, 2010 @ 9:37 pm
Hi Chris,
Thanks for the coordinates of Winteringham HAA Camp. I do know where it is, because the strange thing is we actually moved to Winteringham from Manchester in 1955 when I was 7 years old. I remember as a kid, my friend and I used to explore round it and being interested, even then. However I didn’t know my dad had been stationed there in 1942. I have some interesting stories, which I will share with you later.
Regards
Val
chris keyworth said,
July 30, 2010 @ 9:50 pm
sounds great val however if you email your storeys to Rod directly he will include them in the write up on that particular site as it is best to keep things altogether have you seen the other similar storeys on here about east halton HAA and barrow upon humber HAA site yours will make a good addition to this particular subject and a historicaly valuable resource for future readers
regards
chris
ps. rods email is to be found above in the about me section of the site..
History Hunter said,
July 30, 2010 @ 11:42 pm
The Winteringham HAA looks rather good, but take a look at SE 9134714948. Now that one looks stunning. There are photos on the ‘net that show it overgrown but generally in great condition. Also looks like a Nissen Hut on the far side of the next field to the south. All looks quite accessible, but is on land belonging to Sawcliffe Farm.
Rod said,
July 31, 2010 @ 8:05 am
Val,
I can’t wait to hear some of the stories and posting would be massively appreciated and of great interest.
I wonder though could you possibly wait and I’ll visit the site. As Chris mentions, we can then put it in exactly the right spot.
These things will have a life for many years Val so enabling people to subsequently find your fathers memories is important.
Thanks and regards
Rod
Val Mercer said,
July 31, 2010 @ 4:06 pm
To History Hunter,
I think the one to which you may be referring to is Sawcliffe Gun Site.It is on the A1077,at the top of Sawcliffe Hill,between Roxby and Scunthorpe. It is in quite good condition,considering the age of these sites.It is (or was) very accessible,as it is literally by the roadside.It was there to protect the (then) three steelworks,Lysaght’s,Appleby-Frodingham and Richard Thomas&Baldwin from attacks by enemy aircraft.
After the war,it became a squatter’s camp.(I’m sure I’ve got some newspaper cuttings about it somewhere)
Some of the stories to which I have to tell aren’t all about Winteringham Camp.Some are about the sinking of the “Lancastria”(Has anyone heard of that?) The actual account is still under lock and key in the Archives until 2040,but there is shortly to be an hour’s long documentary on the T.V.
The other story is about the testing of the DD tanks down at Burton-upon Stather.I will E-mail Rod about both stories….they will make interesting reading…
Regards,
Val.
Rod said,
July 31, 2010 @ 8:00 pm
Val,
I made a special trip to Winteringham HAA tonight, just got back in fact - I’ll get a post sorted and up here asap and I’d love to read any comments and information you could share and thereby keep for posterity
Thanks again for the tip off Val
All the best
Rod
Carol said,
August 3, 2010 @ 10:21 pm
Came across your site while researching my family tree - two of our many ancestors were born in 1870 and 1873 at Stallingborough Battery ! There is a family rumour of desertion and name changing so we are trying to establish which regiment was stationed in the area at the time. If we find out I will let you know !
My father in law flew in Lancasters from this area in WW11 as a radio operator/navigator unfotuneately he is now 90 and has the memory of a goldfish. Found your site very interesting its a great pity people don’t appreciate the significance of these historic places.
My father in law’s name is Bill Weston and the family name I am researching is Hobbs (just in case anybody can enlighten me).
Thanks
Carol Weston
Rod said,
August 4, 2010 @ 8:18 am
Hi Carol,
thanks for the comment and welcome to the site.
It’s fabulous to hear that your father flew in Lancasters in Lincolnshire, I need to write an article about them
Best of luck with the search
All the best
Rod
Val Mercer said,
August 4, 2010 @ 8:42 pm
Hi Rod,
You know I was doing a story on the Winteringham website….Well my cousin has just sent in a photo which I didn’t even know existed.Guess where? Yes,Winteringham HAA site!It’s just come on today;my dad would have been so pleased.Someone has given me a lead on the camp.Apparently his dad owned a engineering firm just a couple of miles away at Winterton,and they did some work at the camp in WW2.I must follow that up!
Regards, Val.
Rod said,
August 5, 2010 @ 8:34 am
Val,
sounds great, if you ever want to share anything about Winteringham HAA then many would be interested
http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/winteringham-heavy-anti-aircraft-battery-scunthorpe-h8-haa
Best
Rod
Mike Shackel said,
August 13, 2010 @ 7:27 pm
History Hunter, a thousand apologies but I have only just revisited site and found your request for NGR for the gun site at Beddlestead, Surrey, about which I had given some details. You can get a smashing quality Google Earth pic and the NGR is TQ 3838 5775. It is actually marked on OS maps – even the Explorer series – not with the words ‘gun site’ but with four tiny symbols adjacent to a WT station.
History Hunter said,
August 14, 2010 @ 1:04 am
Interesting. I wonder what it was in that position for? At 4.5km away it seems a bit distant to provide cover for Biggin Hill, but then again…maybe so. Can you elaborate at all Mike?
Mike Shackel said,
August 25, 2010 @ 10:26 pm
The history of the Beddlestead site goes back to January 1948 when Eastern Command and London District proposed a 4-gun site at a slightly different location as part of the Nucleus Force under a plan called IGLOO. This initial location was objected to by the BBC who had a transmitter aerial close by, so the site was re-located to where it is today. The fact that it is midway between Biggin Hill and Kenley actually carries no ‘weight’ but it is very close to the highest point on the North Downs. At one point in the ‘Diver’ anti-V1 campaign a series of fields, adjacent to Beddlestead, were earmarked for 356 HAA guns. Now that would have been a gunsite! The Beddlestead site is, for the record, LS449 (formerly LS49).
Nye Cooper said,
September 14, 2010 @ 10:23 pm
Hello All,
Came accross this page trawling the net looking for info about AA guns at Immingham. My grandfather George William Cooper was on an AA battery that, I am told, shot down the first german night bomber over the area, possibly the UK? He told me there was even a painting of it in The London Illustrated News which in his words must have been painted by some who saw it happen as it was very accurate.
Any info would be wonderful, looking a the pictures above was very evocative and I’d love to know more.
Thank you
Nye Cooper
Rod said,
September 15, 2010 @ 8:07 am
Nye,
thanks for the comment and welcome to the site.
What a fabulous comment, we must find out more about George William Cooper and I’d love to locate that issue of the The London Illustrated News - I’ve seen 100s in my time - now I’ll have to check every one.
Hopefully a few people will get on the case and we’ll see what can be dug up about George William Cooper and if at all possible identify which issue of The London Illustrated News contained that painting
Fabulous stuff Nye - many thanks indeed
All the best
Rod
Ian Blakemore said,
October 17, 2010 @ 1:11 am
Hi.
My grandfather served with the Sherwood Foresters at Little London. He was from Chesterfiedl and met my Nanna who lived in Keelby. He met her and her sister when he and a collegue had to escort them home as they were travelling from work on bikes. They got married and Nana moved to Chesterfield and he was deployed in Europe later on in the war.
Unfortunately both died between 1992 and 2001. I remember grandad telling me about the battery guns and how the lights would chase the planes over the humber so they could be gunned down without effecting residents to much.
NE & North Lincolnshire was the home of many RAF bases, unfortunately the media only seems to think London area was the only big place for RAF battles.
There has been evidence that Hitler planned to invade Britain via Grimsby, due to the infrastructure of the docks and railway links to London, from the Fishing Industry. The railway line was one of the most important and the fish trains had priority over all other trains due to the risk of thawing ice and the fish going off!
I will have a look into what other hidden RAF gems are in the area too.
I enjoyed reading this thank you and please keep producing them
Rod said,
October 17, 2010 @ 9:53 am
Ian,
fabulous comment - many thanks indeed and welcome to the site.
It’s the first I’ve heard of the ‘Sherwood Foresters at Little London’ fascinating and many thanks for sharing
All the best
Rod
Relico Romano said,
November 21, 2010 @ 3:26 am
Hi Rod
I metal detect on the field between the battery and houses where i find roman objects. Plus now I know why I keep finding Army, RAF,RAAF,RAFVF cap badges + buttons. I’ve got a tag with what I think is some ones issue number if any ones interested. 2650412 .3609sqd
And If your interested there’s a possible anti aircraft battery in the woods behind barneys cafe at barnetby there’s a old chap lives down kings road who remembers it when he was a lad. It was there to protect the railway and station yards and maybe kirmington and elsham airbase?
Another underground bunker is located near a small turning on the left just past the turning into Humber airport. It’s partly blocked off because it used to go under the house that’s there what was once the sentry points to close the road off for when the wellingtons and langc’s landing
Rod said,
November 21, 2010 @ 9:09 am
Relico,
I’d love to find a cap badge one day - what fabulous artefacts.
The idea of traceable finds like 3609 Squadron is even more exciting (just looked them up in fact)
My mind’s spinning with all the articles finds like this could spawn Relico
Regards
Rod
Rod said,
November 21, 2010 @ 5:41 pm
Kindly sent in by our old friend Len Copsey
Hi Rod,
I am still here and breathing!, i dont think i have posted this photo before so here is a description of the 5.25 bore A A Gun the type that were at Stallingborough, looking at the pic you can see the Projectile & Cartidge hydraulicly operated loading and ramming tray, in front under the barrel are the crated electric and hydraulic components this how the Gun left Armstrong Vickers factory on low loader transport to the Gunsite, if you would like any more info get in touch, hope you and all the forum posters are OK
Al said,
January 1, 2011 @ 8:48 pm
Hi
Not sure which links I’ve followed to find this site, but I’m pleased I did - excellent site; I’ve just spent an hour reading this article which started about Stallingborough HAA. I’ve visited the Winteringham (Scunthorpe H8) and the Sawcliffe (H2) sites and been told at both sites there were POW camps but despite extensive searching I cannot find any info on them, would any of your posters know any more?
Happy New Year folks
Al
Rod said,
January 2, 2011 @ 9:11 am
Hi Al,
thanks for the comment and welcome to the site.
I’ve ‘done’ Winteringham which has some info on it and can be found here
Best
Rod
EssDub said,
January 10, 2011 @ 7:23 pm
This site is easily seen on google maps. Zoom in and scan along Keelby Road, its on the South East side of the road covered by a woods
Rod said,
January 10, 2011 @ 7:23 pm
EssDub,
thanks for the comment and welcome ot the site - hope you’ll return
All the best
Rod
nigel scott said,
January 21, 2011 @ 9:29 pm
Its very nice here that one of your readers came up with the full story of the bommer shot down over imm i was only young when i found out about this event.
My grandad told me about it and i use it in my history exam ( i got my first A i have ever had in my life and the last) that was from Mr Wyman the head teatcher at immingaham school , another great man , local history he could not resist it .
My grandad Ernist Goerge Lenerd Scott ( scottys garage) married to Marg rands sis to E R rands and all the kennadys told me that he was one of the first men on the scean after this plane crashed and the story that Amiguru told in your comments is the one of the closest words to what i belived that happend . you have soom great readers and adders …what a job bro
Rod said,
January 22, 2011 @ 8:38 am
Nigel,
the contributions of both regular readers and those who simply make passing visits from Google makes a tremendous difference as they often impart information and personal experience known only to them.
Not only is it then shared but also most importantly . . . preserved for posterity
Best
Rod
RButhnot said,
January 28, 2011 @ 5:15 pm
I just stumbled across this site by chance whilst looking for references to Eric Rands of Immingham. Stunning, awesome, magical even, the superlatives pile high in my head. Although a Hull boy, I spent my childhood and 20 years beyond that in Immingham, and I genuinely thought I was alone with my fascination for the history of the local area. Thank you for the unceasing work you’ve done over the years. You’ve put mu meagre ramblings to shame. I don’t know if I am adding anything new to the story of the Little London AA emplacement, but I worked for Ross Youngs for a number of years and was blessed to meet a Bernard Thompson, who purported to have commanded the battery during WWII. A very polite, well-spoken man, definitely not a Northerner by accent. Possibly a Major in rank. Anyway, thanks again.
Rod said,
January 28, 2011 @ 7:31 pm
RButhnot,
many thanks for the kinds words and a warm welcome to the site - I hope you’ll return.
There will be much more to come yet - weather’s gearing up for more day trips now !
All the best
Rod
Alan de Plant said,
February 21, 2011 @ 5:38 pm
HI folks
Came across this site when looking for info on the artillary bunkers at Little London as I also used to explore them as a kid - indeed I used to explore most of these places including the bridge at Elsham and Rocky Woods, where it was said devil worshipping used to occur - though this was probably a fib designed to keep pesky kids like myself out.
There is also a small bunker in Healing on Wells road and another I know of just outside Swallow.
Also, does anyone know anything about the collection of stone ruins and passageways in a big sunken pit/quarry near Laceby - another place we used to frequent - I think it was a Victorian mill of some sort?
Thanks
Rod said,
February 21, 2011 @ 6:52 pm
Hi Alan,
thanks for the comment and welcome to the site - I’d not heard about the Laceby site so if anybody knows anything it would be of interest
Regards
Rod
Alan de Plant said,
February 21, 2011 @ 8:23 pm
Thanks for you reply - cracking site ,by the way. The laceby site is next to the oaklands in what looks like a wood on google earth but is actually the sunken area I described- quit a steep dro if I remember
Rod said,
February 22, 2011 @ 9:03 am
Alan,
many thanks, I’ll look into it (quite literally by the sounds of it)
Thanks again for the tip and the kind words
All the best
Rod
Robin said,
March 30, 2011 @ 3:22 pm
I’m not sure if i’m adding anything here, but fascinated to read so much about a site where i spent much time during my childhood.
I lived in Keelby until 18 years old, leaving in 1985. The Little London site was often a haunt for me and friends at weekends and school holidays fascinated by WWII. The gun emplacements were in an open field back then, not sure when the area became wooded. There were also a number of other concrete structures to the left of the emplacements. I clearly remember one having a metal mount for a machine gun. These were demolished some time during the earl 80s.
I also remember the cold war bunker, which was 6-7 metres sq, slightly raised, with sloping grass covered sides and padlocked trap door on to. It was directly behind the main concrete buildings at the entrance on Keelby road. This was still being used at least until about 1980 — i remember seeing people coming and going (strangely they never seemed bothered by us kids been there). I was all neat and tidy cut grass etc in contrast to rest of the field. I imagine this is what was surveyed in 1999 and had the furniture etc, as none of the other parts of the site were remotely habitable in the late 70s/early 80s and were as flooded then as now.
In reference to night ops in the areaduring WWII, my Grandad (now long dead) was in the Home Guard during WWII and he told me of taking part in a night exercise where the Guard “played” the role of German invaders. He evaded capture for much of the exercise, but was finally caught in the early hours of the morning. On capture, he was given a hot meal and drink and a film show, which led him to wish he’d been caught a lot earlier. It may have been a Grandad just entertaining his Grandson, but who knows.
Rod said,
March 30, 2011 @ 6:32 pm
Robin,
fabulous stuff - really appreciate the input and welcome to the site - it’s great to get sme Cold War information - many thanks indeed
Cheers
Rod
jamie bemrose said,
May 14, 2011 @ 7:15 pm
what a fantastic post….to all the the other people…it is well worth a visit!
Denise said,
June 3, 2011 @ 1:21 pm
Hi
Stumbled across your site whilst trying to dig up some information regarding Broadway, Grimsby. I had a fabulous conversation with a chap who was telling me that Broadway used to have anti aircraft guns down it or near it in the second world war. i cant seem to find any information regarding this. It must have some relevance because the local pub (now shut) was called the gunners watch, I was just wonderding if anyone could shed some light on this for me.
Rod said,
June 3, 2011 @ 5:12 pm
Hi Denise,
I shall do a something about this soon, a separate article, if anybody has and old photos related to the Broadway area please do feel free email them to me if are so minded.
Thanks Denise for reminding me I need to get this done and welcome to the site
Regards
Rod
graham h said,
June 3, 2011 @ 5:50 pm
Rod and Denise,
As far as I am aware the guns in broadway where sighted where the junior and infant school is sited. I was brought up in Broadway and my parents where the first people to live on the school side of broadway when it was all built. They moved there from Clayton St. I remember my father telling me that when they moved in they could see through to Laceby Road and the site where the schools are still had trenches there.
I hope that you find this of interest.
Graham
Rod said,
June 3, 2011 @ 6:57 pm
Graham,
extremely interesting indeed, I’ll try and get an article sorted out so we can get the information on that page, I’d hate for it to get lost here
Best
Rod
denise said,
June 4, 2011 @ 3:42 pm
Hi Rod & Graham
Thankyou for getting back to me i apreciate it. I wondered if it was up near laceby acres school because outside the school and the old pub it looks like something used to be there.
I thought is was an old subway or something. I looked on google and couldnt find anything at all, and then sat at the park the chappy told me the story about the guns.
graham h said,
June 4, 2011 @ 6:52 pm
Denise,
I think you have misunderstood about the school in question. That school is built on old farmland it was’nt even there when I was at school, in fact all of Laceby Acres is built on that land. The one I am refering to is further down Broadway. after the junction with Pershore Avenue.
Graham
denise said,
June 5, 2011 @ 9:48 am
Hi Graham
Ah I see it was where little Western School is situated, thats interesting. I wonder if little western school are aware of the history of there school. Still puzzles me about near laceby acres schhol though
denise said,
June 5, 2011 @ 9:53 am
Graham
Just found an old map of broadway and it was a subway up near laceby acres school so puzzle over up that way anyway.
Chris Keyworth said,
June 5, 2011 @ 1:03 pm
i was fimly and reliable told that it was on land just off broadway where the school is now my uncle fred was a fireman stationed on the site during the war.
regards
chris
History Hunter said,
June 5, 2011 @ 2:18 pm
Its quite curious as there is no mention of anything in the area from the “Defence of Britain” database which is a very complete list of ‘known’ sites.
Chris Keyworth said,
June 5, 2011 @ 2:24 pm
there is far more out there unknown than known i could show you 20 or thirty sites localy which have no DOB listings they only concentrated the widely known about sites for some reason.
regards
chris…
History Hunter said,
June 5, 2011 @ 9:07 pm
I can well believe it Chris. Another thing that puzzles me is that most of the gun sites were placed in strategic positions to guard certain buildings or areas. Would this one have been one of those specifically for coverage of the Humber?
I know there was one somewhere in the fields at the far end of Laceby Bypass across from Laceby. In fact if you have a look down Lopham Lane there is a very well preserved Nissen Hut on the right hand side, and just behind the houses it looks very much like there is a farm building that looks suspiciously like an old hangar!!
History Hunter said,
June 5, 2011 @ 9:38 pm
Lopham Lane is the easiest access to get to where the Laceby Hospital used to be sited. Founded in 1902 as a Tuberculosis Hospital, in 1948 it changed use to a Smallpox Hospital, and stayed as such until its closure in 1968.
TA 2200505629 or 53°31′59.35″N 0° 9′38.53″W depending on which maps you use.
Unfortunately the land is now a private plot with ‘new’ buildings on the site. But having a distant look im sure that modern earthworks can be made out, especially when the sun is setting.
Len Copsey said,
July 14, 2011 @ 11:21 pm
Hi Rod and all the contributors to this terrific site, just been reading the latest comments, i am still in reasonable good health but am 82yrs young now and need a pavement scooter for moving around, keep death off the pavements!!!, if i should find any info of interest i will post it Cheers & Good Health to All and Take Care, Len Copsey.
Rod said,
July 15, 2011 @ 7:37 am
Hi Len,
great to hear from - it really is.
Your contributions have brought this article to life. It is in fact one of the most popular of all the historical pages Len - countless 1,000s of people have read and relished what you’ve written.
Very best wishes Len and take care
Rod
SAXMAN said,
July 15, 2011 @ 4:16 pm
TO Chris Keyworth and History Hunter.
…………
also all else who have posted here too.
Truley amazing history is surfacing about defence positions along the Humber at long last.
Chris and “History” and others please take a look at my postings under “Humber Forts” on Rods site if you haven’t already done so as all this must link together some how (Stallingborough to the forts by aircraft is just minutes!) in attack mode by gunship not much more.
Your knowledge,coments, and input can only enlighten us even more to the unknown/forgotten/s.c.et?
history of our area.
many thanks.
The Saxman.
Rod said,
July 16, 2011 @ 8:52 am
Important addition:
Everybody familiar with this page will be well aware of the fabulous contribution made by Len Copsey and the debt we all owe for his comments threaded throughout the multitude above.
If you go back up to the original article you’ll see I’ve now added to the bottom of it Len’s actual service book which he kindly sent me a scan of - it’s a fabulous piece of history and the perfect introduction to his comments and memories that follow.
Thanks go to Len once again for sharing all this with us and many 1,000s of others.
In appreciation
Rod
Patricia said,
July 27, 2011 @ 3:37 pm
Dear Rod,
My father in law used to be stationed at little london, we live at stallingborough and i would love to see the and take pictures of the bunkers…..can you send me info info on how to find them.
I never knew they were still there !!!
regards
Patricia
Rod said,
July 27, 2011 @ 7:31 pm
Hi Patricia,
the land is in private hands I’m afraid, you can walk around the outside via a public footpath though.
Directions to the footpath are above somewhere Patricia
Regards
Rod
Chris Keyworth said,
July 27, 2011 @ 7:52 pm
Patricia / Rod / Sam Everyone…
Patricia, im sure if you go down there and see Samantha she would Grant you Access as you have a genuine interest in the site….
Sam, Here is an offer for you…. how about a dedicated group of volunteers to cleen the site up properly, fully insured and licenced conservationists we are looking for a good place to teach ppl how to lay headges the old way this site would be idealy suited for it and its highly decrative and animal friendly and whats more totaly free…as this would be a worthy cause…
regards
chris….
minnie said,
July 27, 2011 @ 10:40 pm
Denise
my grandad used to live down Pershore Avenue and I remember him telling me about the big guns down Broadway - From what I could work out they were roughly in line or just in front of the row of poplars (some of them still standing) that run in a line from Pershore Avenue, following a line through little Western School and in the backgardens of some of the houses along Wroxham avenue/ St Ives Crescent. I know there used to be a huge concrete block base/bund in the back garden of 146 Broadway which I dont think was ever removed entirely because they couldnt break up the concrete and I was told that this was the base of a huge search lamp. There is another concrete base in the backgarden of another house on Broadway about halfway down from that (sorry cant remember number) that backs onto the golf course.
milo said,
August 18, 2011 @ 1:38 am
hi rod .fantastic website real interesting read,spent hours looking and reading about wartime lincolnshire with some pretty good pictures and some fantastic stories, i my self are into the history of of the pill boxes and battery’s placed around lincolnshire.it comes to mind that it maybe of some intrest. As a lad myself and my father used to cycle from Great Coates on to the north wall at the back of millenium chemicals. Not being that much into fishing i used to play around on the beech, but i remember then there being 1 or 2 gun placements on the beech just over the sea wall. a large square concrete structure about 10 - 12 feet high with a flat roof you could walk into and on the floor a very large round flat steel plate with bolts pertuding upwards just like the ones at stallingborough site. my father said they were gun placements. i wondered if anyone would know as to what they actually were? I can no longer see them, but have memories of playing in them. All that seems to be there now is what looks to be like a small sentry box.. maybe?? i myself are now in my late 30’s so we maybe lookimg around 30 yrs ago!! cheers.. look farward to any information.
Rod said,
August 18, 2011 @ 8:36 am
Milo,
thnaks for the kind words and welcome to the site.
I’ve seen the remnants of some pillboxes etc around that coastal area but the ones I’ve seen tend to be fenced in and now on private factory property.
Cheers
Rod
Jon said,
August 21, 2011 @ 11:01 pm
Hi all, thoroughly interesting site with some great history. I’d just like to update you all that ‘Samantha’ no longer rents this field, and as I’ve found out today the people that do no longer grant access to anyone other than English Heritage. I went to take some photo’s myself and bumped into them in the next field. They were pleasant enough about my request but unfortunately its their choice. As it was, they did let me in for about 15 minutes whilst they were there, but insisted on me leaving once they were due to start work again. I know its not good news, but there you go.
Rod said,
August 22, 2011 @ 7:16 am
Hi Jon,
thanks for the information, very much appreciated
All the best
Rod
john brackenbury said,
September 26, 2011 @ 10:59 pm
Just found your site,I have been reading about the Stallingborough anti-aircraft site(Little London).In the left hand corner of the site is our redundant Royal Observer Corps post.It was an underground monitoring post.I seved there as a volunteer observer.It was closed down when the corps was stood down at the end of the cold war in Sept1991.
John
Rod said,
September 27, 2011 @ 7:49 am
John,
welcome to the site and many thanks for leaving a comment. I should love to hear more about your time there, anything you can tell us about anything would be of great interest.
I’ve heard lots of stories about ‘people turning up and disappearing down there for the weekend’ etc
I can’t tell you how intersting it would be to hear more John
Thanks and regards
Rod
James Smith said,
October 5, 2011 @ 5:56 pm
HEALING BUNKER, on Wells Rd, any information wanted! I already know its location, however things such as dates and access would be appreciated.
Many thanks,
James
Site owner later edit: See here Healing Bunker
Rod said,
October 5, 2011 @ 6:30 pm
James,
are there visble remains etc ?
I’m sure I’ve not visited it etc - if there’s any access or anything to see then I’ll get an article posted up for it alone rather than it get lost on here.
Regards
Rod
James Smith said,
October 6, 2011 @ 7:43 pm
Rod,
The bunker is surrounded with nettles, so I’m waiting until the undergrowth has died down a little before venturing closer. There is a raised concrete box (much like the one at Swallow). Also there are 2 small metal flag-shaped objects on the lid - whether these are locks or not, I don’t know.
James
Rod said,
October 8, 2011 @ 8:02 am
James,
many thanks indeed - much appreciated.
Best
Rod
See here Healing Bunker
Jon said,
October 10, 2011 @ 4:20 pm
Rod,
I didn’t photograph this when I visited the AA site but you’ll find its a standard ROC post. There’s no end of info online. I was told this site is locked, as many of them are. I’d suspect from experience if its been locked since it was shut down it would be very well perserved. Unfortunately my local one has been badly fire damaged. Getting access - I was told its privately owned, by whom I’m not sure. Otherwise there aint a lot to see above ground, just the access turret and vent about 3 yards away. Basically, they were all the same design.
Jon
Ros said,
November 17, 2011 @ 10:09 pm
My late mother was an artillary leutenant stationed at Stallingborough in 1944-45. After she died her sister told me that she had been engaged to an Argentinian crewman of a returning Lancaster which her battery at Stallingborough had opened fire on by accident and shot down. All crew lost. She never told anyone else while she was alive because of the official secrets act. I would love to know more. Does anyone have any info?
Rod said,
November 18, 2011 @ 8:17 am
Ros,
thanks for the fascinating comment and welcome to the site.
I’ve done a list of the Lancasters that came down in Lincolnshire - it could well be on there.
It would be very interetsing to find out more about this incident
http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/lancaster-crashes-in-lincolnshire-lancaster-crash-sites
Best
Rod
Ros said,
November 18, 2011 @ 10:44 pm
Hi Rod
Thanks for your reply. Is there a list of Argentinian crew lost on Lancasters on any site? I have been unable to find one. That was my idea for taking this forward.
Ros
Rod said,
November 19, 2011 @ 8:23 am
Ros,
not sure about that, the way forward is to identify the flight. Find out the date or the crash site or indeed the name of anybody on board - anything that pinpoints the plane or crash site or date
Cheers
Rod