South Killingholme Baptist Chapel ~ Urgent Help Required
The Old Baptist Chapel at Killingholme in Lincolnshire is Very Historic and in Urgent Need of Rescue.
This is quite interesting and not one of the ‘usual’ church articles
Hidden from sight in Chapel Lane South Killingholme in Lincolnshire is a small early brick built Baptist chapel dated 1792.
Despite being a Grade II listed building it looks abandoned and appears to have been consigned to eventual rubble.
The building is not boarded up, let alone weather proof, the doors are open and the inside is in a dreadful state.
Some of the pews have been smashed up as have some of the floor boards. By the pulpit is a pit for a Baptismal Font which is now missing and was once there according to my fellow visitor Chris Keyworth.
The windows are missing and doors are hanging from their hinges, a pharmacists carrier bag containing hypodermic needles put the last daub of paint on this canvas of misery.
There is a graveyard and to the left you’ll see the headstone of Reverend Abraham Greenwood.
The building has a date stone above the doorway of 1792 and interestingly there are grave stones there from the 1700s.
Whilst not rare 1700s stones tend to be uncommon in comparison to 1800s and above. Many graveyards I visit have none - despite much older medieval history.
Two other stones caught our eye.
-
Martha Wife of Thomas Smith
Died 1792 Aged 34
Susan Wife of Joseph Towler
Died 1793 Aged 34
As mentioned the building is, or supposed to be, Grade II Listed. English Heritage have it listed as being built post 1747 and then rebuilt 1792 and that’s about it.
The roof and the brickwork connecting the roof apex to the walls is particularly noticeable, the style of brickwork was very distinctive and Chris thought it reminiscent of work he’s seen on Lord Yarborough’s Estates.
It is listed in Pevsner but merits only a line and offers no information.
There is little else spring up though I intend to pursue my research though I have found that Bacons the Estate Agent offered it for sale and have it marked as sold so somebody owns it ?
South Killingholme Baptist Chapel
My apologies for the picture but the site is so overgrown this was the only real angle
I should like to find out when it fell into disuse, it would appear to have been some time ago yet strangely there is an incongruous gravestone in amongst all the old and battered grave markers, tomb lids, nettles and undergrowth - one almost new and dated 1984 !
Rev Abraham Greenwood
Born at Barnoldswick, January 21st, 1749 he gets a mention in George Shaw’s Old Grimsby as having been one of the thirteen men who actually founded the Baptist Missionary Society.
He appears to have started his ministerial career in Rochdale, then Dudley before ending up in Lincoln. He’s described thus:
“the first pastor of Rochdale, which church had the knack of being in touch with the beginning of many a good Movement.”
Although information it piecemeal he does seem to have been an important and influential man in his field and we’d certainly welcome more information on him and his work.
If you know anything at all about the chapel which is badly in need of rescuing, or you have any ideas or comments at all then please do leave a comment - thank you.
All the best
Rod
See also: Killingholme Baptist Church Register and St Deny’s
Chris Keyworth said,
August 14, 2010 @ 7:30 pm
There is a connection to the pilgrim farthers in this chaple yard if anyone can find it
regards
chris
Rod said,
August 14, 2010 @ 7:41 pm
Map update:
Map Maestro Neville sent this in from and 1888 map.
Rod said,
August 14, 2010 @ 7:49 pm
Chris,
I did note that Joseph Towler seems a common name in america !
Best
Rod
Chris Keyworth said,
August 15, 2010 @ 1:41 am
335 looks an interesting enclosure..
Rod said,
August 15, 2010 @ 8:15 am
Chris,
it does, there’s something top right in the enclosure as well.
It looks perhaps like the road followed the feature to me rather than the other way round
Cheers
Rod
Chris Keyworth said,
August 15, 2010 @ 10:16 am
roads only mess around like that round churches or graveyards…south killingholme should have a church….
regards
chris
David Alan Stapp said,
September 18, 2010 @ 11:52 am
Awesome discussion and information! Rod, your website is fantastic and your work is appreciated greatly by the Stapp family of Lincolnshire. I have a ton of information on the church, including a transcription of the original General Baptist Church parish register from 1686-1750 (the originals are at the Archives in Grimsby)
I am an American living in Germany, but was fortunate enough to get over to the church a few months ago. It was completely overgrown and run-down. That church is likely the reason for my family’s immigration to the Virginia colony before 1670. The Stapp’s owned the land that the parish sat on for years, and then either gave or sold parts of it to the church. They (and some of their neighbors) were dissenting members of the church, and some were excommunicated by the vicar of Elsham.
I also wanted to mention that your research at Stallingborough resulted in me being able to find the gravestone for Ellis Penson, whose mother was Mary Stapp, a daughter of Ellis Stapp.
Rod said,
September 18, 2010 @ 2:03 pm
David,
thanks for the kind words and welcome to the site - fabulous comment and thank you for the information you’ve added - very interesting indeed.
What a staggering connection to our friend Ellis Penson, he feels almost like a friend to me.
Hope to keep you inerested David
All the best
Rod
chris keyworth said,
September 18, 2010 @ 2:20 pm
without sounding cheeky David any chance you could let either me or rod have a copy of the register as ive a funny feeling it may answer alot of questions about the area and also pose many new ones aswell.
regards
chris
David Alan Stapp said,
September 18, 2010 @ 8:57 pm
Rod & Chris,
Mr. John Wilson, the lead archivist at the Lincs. Archives in Grimsby showed me a copy of the “South Killingholme Baptist Church: typescript history by L.H.Prior, 1983″ I highly recommend reading this article if you’re interested in the church. Prior mentions the excommunication in Elsham and land transactions by the Stapps. I’m going to send the Baptist Parish register to you via email, but can you post it publicly as well? I submitted it to a couple of Historical Societies who haven’t done anything with it. Maybe it will help others?
David Alan Stapp said,
September 18, 2010 @ 10:13 pm
One other question regarding that area and it’s history: Have you had an opportunity to visit the Old Manor House? I didn’t find out that it was still standing until I left the area. I think that it was originally called Thornton Fee, and I have a nice document from 1630 where members of the area were arguing over who owned rights to it.
History Hunter said,
September 18, 2010 @ 10:47 pm
It seems like we are beginning to find the answer to the Meaning of Life. I reckon in time a few more threads will link together and then they will all link and then we have a reverse family tree, all the branches leading down to a single subject. And what odds do you give that the answer to the Meaning Of Life is:
ROD COLLINS
Rod said,
September 19, 2010 @ 7:35 am
David,
thanks for all the info and the email - really appreciated.
I submitted it to a couple of Historical Societies who haven’t done anything with it
That’s about to be remedied !
As to the manor house David check this article I wrote there’s also a link on that page to a nice little thing Chris came across in the area
Must dash - things to do - pages to prepare !
Regards
Rod
Rod said,
September 19, 2010 @ 7:37 am
HH,
there’s something in you interconnecting theory - I’m amazed how many cross-refernces and tie-ins we keep getting - one day there will be a really big and spooky one !
Take it steady
Rod
Rod said,
September 19, 2010 @ 8:58 am
David,
I’ve been on with it for ages now but because it’s a pdf document it’s hell on earth to do anything with
I’ve got aheadache with it so will hve to try again later - god I hate pdf documents
Best
Rod
chris keyworth said,
September 19, 2010 @ 10:56 am
stuff google you will soon be rod collins,ing instead
chris keyworth said,
September 19, 2010 @ 11:16 am
ive got a funny feeling we are about to finaly get somwhere on this thread now thanks to David, i know alot of people that will be very happy…
regards
chris
Rod said,
September 19, 2010 @ 3:30 pm
Chris & David,
got it all done, formatted and in blog shape - up now hope everyybody is happy with it and big thanks to David
All the best
Rod
John Wilson said,
September 22, 2010 @ 9:44 am
The chapel was in use by the congregation until about 1983. The last trustee died last year.
Rod said,
September 22, 2010 @ 9:59 am
John,
thanks for taking the time to leave a comment and welcome to the site.
We know have the beginning and end dates - many thanks John - here’s hoping there’s a lot more information to come out there
All the best
Rod
W. Stepp said,
June 29, 2011 @ 10:54 pm
It is my understanding that the South Killingholme Baptist Chapel property has been sold .
Rod said,
June 30, 2011 @ 7:02 am
WS, thanks for the update, very much appreciated
Regards,
Rod
Chris Keyworth said,
June 30, 2011 @ 9:48 am
yes i believe chapmans have it from north killingholme
regards
chris….
W. Stepp said,
July 6, 2011 @ 12:45 am
Chris : Is that the same Chapman Family that apparently owns the run down manor house ?
W. Stepp said,
July 6, 2011 @ 1:10 am
At this point I should probably properly introduce myself . I live in the United States . David A. Stapp is some sort of distant cousin . My Stapp ancestor left - perhaps was asked to leave - the River Humber area circa the 1670s as far as I can tell . He settled in Virginia . No record of him found in England so far , but when he hit Virginia you couldn’t shut him up ( got in trouble for swearing in public , I believe ) . The Stapp Family had a place in Killingholme called ” Gentil Farm ” . Per various wills they were yeomen in the 1600s . About six years ago I and several other Stapp and Stepp males in the USA took part in Y DNA testing . Y DNA is passed paternally and does not lie ( thus the testing results can cause some embarassment and strong emotional moments at family gatherings ) . Anyway many of us matched up with an honest to God Englishman surnamed Stapp whose family has River Humber roots . Therefore I have Humber roots and am probably related to some of you on this site AND the charming folks I viewed in the ” England’s Toughest Villages ” segment on Killingholme on YouTube . Cheers ! Bill Stepp
Rod said,
July 6, 2011 @ 6:58 am
Bill,
congratulations on having such excellent DNA !
Some may called me biased but it’s hard to imagine a greater attribute in life than Lincolsnhire based DNA
I should get mine tested really, see what’s what !
Regards from England
Rod
Chris Keyworth said,
July 6, 2011 @ 10:23 am
W S
yes i believe it is the same family who own the chapel, i will look into gentil farm for you i believe i have heared the name before, its old maps time i think..
Regards
Chris….
History Hunter said,
July 6, 2011 @ 2:08 pm
No need to get your DNA tested Rod, we all know it will come back with the same double helix results as Lincolnshire sausages and Lincolnshire Plum Bread!!!!
Rod said,
July 6, 2011 @ 5:31 pm
HH,
I suspect it’ll be a weirder mixture than that
Nina said,
July 7, 2011 @ 1:59 pm
It seems planning permission has gone in to flatten the chapel and build a bungalow - surely this can not be allowed?? One of the graves is of one of the Pilgrim Fathers and this is where they met prior to sailing. Hence the abundance of linked names Mayflower, Baptist Chapel etc etc
Rod said,
July 7, 2011 @ 2:10 pm
Nina,
this is somewhat startling news and a certainly share your dismay !
I’m not sure what’s involved in doing this sort of thing, perhaps in ignorance, I’d think the same as you . . . it can’t be done.
It’s especially worrying because of the important historical aspects you mention Nina, not only local history but I think it’s fair to say the importance of the Pilgrim Fathers reaches a little beyond NE Lincolnshire !!
Yours, a concerned
Rod
Gordon Luck said,
July 7, 2011 @ 2:36 pm
Planning application for this can be viewed online at North Lincs Council. Reference number PA/2011/0574
Appears to show continued use of main structure?
Chris Keyworth said,
July 7, 2011 @ 4:03 pm
I susspect that any plan to develop the site away from its current footprint would be rejected but on another note it is a shame that the building has fallen into disrepair and i would welcome any plan to restore the original building to a presentable state, there is a recent grave in there so i would think the grounds are still consecrated so any extentions or outward building would be restricted, im sure Peter would be able to clarify the situation, in the meantime i shall be lodging my concerns with the council for what good it may do, i will also contact Brian Mummery at the IM and see if he will step in too..
Regards
Chris…
Chris Keyworth said,
July 7, 2011 @ 6:56 pm
Here is the plans for it which are still under concideration..
http://www.planning.northlincs.gov.uk/newplanet/planetMain.aspx?refno=PA/2011/0574
regards
chris
W. Stepp said,
July 8, 2011 @ 2:47 pm
Interesting development on the chapel property . I am not familiar with English law , but generally in the USA one cannot build on a graveyard . One exception I read about years ago , a property was ” de / un consecrated ” and all the remains were reburied elsewhere . Was expensive .
W. Stepp said,
July 8, 2011 @ 3:03 pm
If I am reading it correctly , the application states that the chapel and graveyard have been deconsecrated .
Chris Keyworth said,
July 8, 2011 @ 8:11 pm
im not sure about that as there was a burial there not to long back only 10 years ago a Mr Dobbson or somthing like that so it must have been consecrated to allow for that to happen, ive looked at the plans and there is graves near to the proposed outbuilding extention im not against the updating of the building and for it to find a new use as a home for somone is great but i am against anything that interupts these graves or the removal of headstones i think it is sacreligius these graves where bought and paid for by individuals that wanted to be placed there on there death i dont think any person has the right to disrupt this process this is where my objections are wrooted, any plans submitted should reviewed as these are nationaly and internationaly important graved relating to the founding farthers of the USA….
Regards
Chris…
W. Stepp said,
July 9, 2011 @ 12:55 am
I realize that I am an ” out of towner …. way out of towner ” , but I registered my objection .
W. Stepp said,
July 9, 2011 @ 11:43 pm
Chris : Thanks for your research and comment on the plan .
Chris Keyworth said,
July 26, 2011 @ 2:18 pm
Hi for all that have shown an interest in the LWRT (Lincolnshire Wolds Research Team) after tommorow this group / team will be active, but under a slightly different name LWRCT (Lincolnshire Wolds Research and Conservation Team)
with Full Public Liability Insurance and BCTV Membership. what this means is all members will be insured to do everthing we want to do and can do when we are out in the field and for those that want to do specific thing there will be full training given by qualified instructors and guess what its all FREE to members so if you want to get involved then get intouch with me cjkeyworth@hotmail.co.uk we will be covering everthing from Archaeology to Hedglaying Great Crested Newt Surveys Bat Surveys Historical research Finds Idetificaton Metal Detecting Field Walking. the full spectrum,
we will be merging with another well established group and meetings will be held every second tuesday of the month at a location to be decided..
Regards
Chris
Chris Keyworth said,
August 1, 2011 @ 12:13 pm
Planning Update… just a small note to let everybody know that planns have been passed for the baptist church renovation ….. seems our concerns have been ignord typical of North Lincs Council ..
regards
chris
W. Stepp said,
August 1, 2011 @ 1:25 pm
Yes , I just received an email telling me of the decision .
Rod said,
August 1, 2011 @ 2:23 pm
Chris,
thanks for the update, much appreciated, your finger’s on the pulse as always.
WS, likewise for the email, many thanks
Best
Rod
di said,
September 23, 2011 @ 9:45 am
Hi Chris,
I just want people on this site to know we at the council objected strongly to this building going ahead at the chaple
as you said we were just over run by north lincs council it did not matter to them as they don’t live in Killingholme.
There are bats in there as well I thought you could not remove them, how anyone can think of building a house there is beyond me.
They have started work on the site and many of us in the village are not at all happy about it but nothing we could do.
Chris Keyworth said,
September 23, 2011 @ 2:00 pm
di cheers for the update, if there are bats roosting there then they are breaking the law does Alan know have a word with him he will know who to speak to to get it halted.
regards
chris…
W. Stepp said,
October 5, 2011 @ 4:22 am
Bats …. the church looks like it could have rats and snakes in the tall grass . And that Killingholme Manor House looks positively creepy . Could be used as a set for a horror movie - ” Chainsaw Massacre at Tea Time “
W. Stepp said,
October 5, 2011 @ 2:13 pm
@ Di and Chris : In all seriousness , I think the construction / remodeling on that site is wrong . I cannot believe those graves are not protected under the law . Also if English bats are like American bats , they will never leave . Whoever owns / resides on that property definitely has bats in the belfry .
dawn said,
March 14, 2012 @ 5:25 pm
hi is there any chance I could speak to you about the baptist chapel at south killingholme please.
Rod said,
March 14, 2012 @ 7:02 pm
Hi Dawn,
eveything I know is on this page I’m afraid Dawn so there’s nothing I can really add - sorry about that
All the best
Rod
Chris Keyworth said,
March 14, 2012 @ 8:04 pm
Hi all
i went past the chapel the other day and it is still as it was nothing seems to have been done to it as yet, i susspect the builder bought it then applied for planning so that it could be sold on for a profit, the clock is ticking 3 years until the outline planning permision lapses..
regards
chris…
dawn said,
March 17, 2012 @ 6:27 pm
Im lost would it not be better for the chapel to be converted, rather than being left to go into either more dis-repair?
Rod said,
March 17, 2012 @ 6:39 pm
Dawn,
I believe we should be looking after our heritage properly, we seem to have enough money to waste all around the world - that said I’m with you in as much as saving something has to be better than saving nothing.
Best
Rod
dawn said,
March 17, 2012 @ 7:45 pm
i completely agree, i have looked at the plans for the converstion, and the bats are protected, and bat and swollow boxes have to be placed in the roof, the graves are protected and can only be moved if familys of the people barried agree. I see it has been sold now, im not sure how they have planning permissin for the extension but hopefully who has bought it will renovate it with the love as it deserve
Curlywirly said,
April 2, 2012 @ 2:15 pm
Hi I have read your comments and find it very intresting, I have bought the chapel, and I would like to convert it back on the original footprint and do nothing more than give it the love and attention it deserves, I have found one picture before it became derelict and it is a stunning building but I am struggling to find a list of who is burried in the garden as I would like to find as many of the original grave stones as possible, and show the respect they deserve, I do not want to add a big extention on as the plans show, just give the building the love it deserves. I hope someone can help.
Rod said,
April 2, 2012 @ 7:03 pm
CW,
thanks for the comment much appreciated and welcome to the site and very best of luck with the project.
All the best
Rod
curlywirly said,
April 4, 2012 @ 9:12 am
you are more than welcome to take some more pictures of the inside and gardens while they are not so overgrown if you would like.
W. Stepp said,
May 9, 2012 @ 9:44 am
Glad to learn that there is some positive news on the Chapel . To the best of my knowledge , no one has contacted any present day Stapp in England about the graves . Members of the extended family still reside in Lincolnshire and Yorkshire and I shall be contacting them . Since my family owned the land at one time and were members , it is possible that family members are buried there . As I have stated before , my emigrating ancestor left Lincolnshire circa the 1670s for Virginia’s sunny shores so I am out of the picture , but interested .
Chris Keyworth said,
May 9, 2012 @ 4:18 pm
CW, Thats great news
I would be happy to get some of my volenteers in to clear the brash and expose the grave stones so we can photo them and record them for you, i think the best option is as you suggested use the original footprint and it sounds like you are wanting to do the right think by the building and for that im sure anyone with any connection or concerns would be happy with…
regards
chris
Di said,
May 11, 2012 @ 11:31 am
Thanks for that Rod I have gone through the mail from people and can not believe how many there are.
I have a small list of the burial Ground and other paper work if any one is interested Di
Rod said,
May 11, 2012 @ 3:27 pm
Di,
pleasure, many thanks
All the best
Rod
CURLYWIRLY said,
May 19, 2012 @ 10:12 pm
Chris that would be brilliant, I am working closely with the coucil, english heritage and conservation people.
DI that would be brilliant if I could make arrangements to meet up, I have been trying to find as much informatin as I can.
W Stepp we need t have an historic building recrd done on the chapel, which gives us the information on who is burried on the land, then we will be contacting families.
My email address is curlywirly19@hotmail.co.uk, please get in touch, and i am willing to send photos, of progress to anyone if required.