Ramster Family name A revelation to Me
Christmas is a time for families we al know that and this is being blogged live from my small family event.
I have just been shown 2 photographs of people I have never met or known, or indeed seen pictures of
One is my grandfather and the other the man from whom my middle name comes - I really should know more about these people !
My middle name is Dean although I never really knew why or indeed wondered enough to enquire properly but this christmas eve I was shown an old photograph that had been sent to my parents.
Who’s that said I being shown the picture below.
A relative of my father (so presumably me as well) from whom I take my middle name !
Percival Dean Ramster
He was a gunner in the Royal Artillery during World War I and sadly died of natural causes in only his early 40s. It feels very strange looking upon him now and I can’t help thinking I should know more of my families past or indeed what they’re doing now - what’s left of them of course !
Albert Collins My Grandfather
3rd from left in light coat
The above was another revelation my grandfather, on my father’s side, whom I never met and this is only the second time I’ve seen a picture of him.
He too lived in Grimsby and this picture shows him at work on Grimsby Fish Docks working at the family fish merchants which he ran.
All very strange, especially at this time of year - strange feelings and thoughts of family etc
Anyhoo, I’d better head off as we are about to exchange presents
Merry Yule to one and all
Rod
Scroll down for lots more information and pictures
Rod said,
January 20, 2009 @ 12:49 pm
Update: I’ve found a 3rd cousin I think
The J.W. Ramster fish business seen above is the connection with the Collins family and what prompted the visit to this site by a distant cousin Johnny.
Info supplied by John William Ramster IV
the Ramsters came to Grimsby as fishing folk out of Brixham in the West Country and before that were Dutch - we think the name is Dutch in origin
If aybody has any more information please feel free to leave a comment or contact us
Thanks in advance
Rod
History Hunter said,
March 24, 2010 @ 2:24 pm
About 12 years back i was friends (nothing more) with a local girl called Michaela Ramster. I know she got married but i dont know what her surname changed to.
Peter Mullins said,
March 24, 2010 @ 4:34 pm
One of my favourite tools at the moment is nationaltrustnames.org.uk which will deliver a distribution pattern for surnames in the 1881 census. I’ve been able to confirm the Lincolnshire roots of a variety of names (Blades, Capes, Leggett, Rigall), although this can be difficult to work out as a surname widespread in the DN or PE postcodes might be a name common only in the lIncolnshir eparts of that postcode area or not.
Anyway - I’ve put in Ramster. It only shows up in any quantity in four postcode areas in 1881. HU and DN are the most frequent. So it looks like a name with a Yorkshire origin. The other places it shows up are in the Birmingham and Torquay postcodes - so the theory that it has its very limited English origin is in Brixham but it moved up to Grimsby might just work as well as long as it spread across to Hull as well and this final branch proved the most prolific.
Rod said,
March 24, 2010 @ 5:47 pm
Very interesting
I should really like to have a better idea of my family tree, I know some work has been done but sadly I don’t think it yielded anything of magnitude and also came to a dead end after a couple of hundred years.
I should like a connection to something juicy ideally - either somebody of great eminence or extremely disreputable !
Best
Rod
Amiguru said,
March 24, 2010 @ 8:01 pm
Peter,
Yes its one of my genealogical mainstays; I’ve been using it for about 4 years now since it was originally developed by one of the uni’s. If you go deeper into the statistical section it can reveal lots of amazing stuff. I did a search on a certain Mr. C’s name about 3 months ago and he has southern roots, but don’t mention it!
By the way, did you spot the Gt. Coates update re John de Wynesflode? I mention it as you said you are very busy at the present.
Regards,
Neville
Amiguru said,
March 24, 2010 @ 8:21 pm
Rod,
Don’t know if you have checked the CWGC but there is only one death recorded for the Ramster surname during the 1st WW:
RAMSTER, ARTHUR
Initials: A
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Trimmer
Regiment/Service: Royal Naval Reserve
Unit Text: H.M. Trawler “Othello II.”
Age: 21
Date of Death: 31/10/1915
Service No: 2246TS
Additional information: Son of William and Mary Elizabeth Ramster, of Hull.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: 14.
Memorial: CHATHAM NAVAL MEMORIAL
…..and three in the 2nd. WW:
RAMSTER, CHARLES ALBERT
Initials: C A
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Petty Officer
Regiment/Service: Royal Navy
Unit Text: H.M.S. Arethusa
Age: 37
Date of Death: 18/11/1942
Service No: C/J 96996
Additional information: Son of Charles Henry and Elizabeth Ramster; husband of Elsie Annie Ramster, of Harwell, Berkshire.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: 52, 1.
Memorial: CHATHAM NAVAL MEMORIAL
RAMSTER, HERBERT
Initials: H
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Lance Corporal
Regiment/Service: Worcestershire Regiment
Unit Text: 1st Bn.
Age: 30
Date of Death: 10/05/1941
Service No: 4341614
Additional information: Son of Thomas and Alice Ramster, of Hull.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: 7. A. 2.
Cemetery: KHARTOUM WAR CEMETERY
RAMSTER, SYDNEY
Initials: S
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Suffolk Regiment
Unit Text: 30th Bn.
Age: 22
Date of Death: 24/06/1942
Service No: 7895722
Additional information: Son of William and Mary Elizabeth Ramster, of Hull.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Compt. 229. Grave 22216.
Cemetery: HULL WESTERN CEMETERY
Regards,
Neville
Amiguru said,
March 24, 2010 @ 8:37 pm
Rod,
Here is an entry in the 1881 census which might be of particular interest to you:
Name Relation Marital Gender Age Birthplace Occupation
John RAMSTER Head M Male 37 Brixham, Devon, England Fish Dealer
Susanna RAMSTER Wife M Female 34 Grimsby, Lincoln, England
John RAMSTER Son Male 10 Grimsby, Lincoln, England Scholar
Alice RAMSTER Daur Female 8 Grimsby, Lincoln, England Scholar
Ernest RAMSTER Son Male 5 Grimsby, Lincoln, England Scholar
Rose RAMSTER Daur Female 3 Grimsby, Lincoln, England
Ethel RAMSTER Daur Female 1 m Grimsby, Lincoln, England
Anne KIRMAN Servant U Female 40 Nurse (SMS)
Source Information:
Dwelling 74 Garibaldi Street
Census Place Great Grimsby, Lincoln, England
Family History Library Film 1341780
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3270 / 127
Page Number 39
Regards,
Neville
Rod said,
March 25, 2010 @ 7:37 am
Neville,
I’m really taken aback, as I type this I’ve looked at those names for only moments and it feels very strange - I can’t quite describe it - it certainly feels as though I ought to do something with this family tree business
One small point that did spring to mind
Mr. C’s name about 3 months ago and he has southern roots, but don’t mention it!
I’m surprised I need to point this out to a man of your standing but I do live in the south.
According to the Venerable Bede The Humber marks the north south divide and . . .
According to Alfred the Great, only Barbarians live north of the Humber !!!
I’ve such affection for you Neville I’ll allow this lapse and your implication I live ‘Up North’
I need to digest those names and information now - feels very strange Neville !
Thanks and regards
Rod
PS: did you see the Ellis Penson comment - how fabulous !
Amiguru said,
March 25, 2010 @ 8:49 pm
Rod,
I’m pleased you have taken the genealogical bait but wonder if you realise what you are getting into
I started my family tree circa 1970 and to date have 610 people on it going back as far as the 1690’s. Your training in historical reasearches on this site have stood you in good stead as it has, I know, reinforced the realisation that scrupulous attention to detail and cross-referencing are an essential disipline. One mistaken identity can have you barking up the wrong tree, (groan).
The name of Ramster is a really fortunate name to start with as, for example, there were in the whole 1881 census for England only 39 people recorded on it with that name! With the name Collins you will have to narrow the field considerable as there are many thousands with that name and its variants.
If you get really interested and would like some appropriate links to get you started I can e-mail them to you.
Whatever the case, it doesn’t matter where we think our roots are as after all, even if we regard ourselves as English, (let alone a Yellowbelly), we are all mongrels with probable Celtic/Roman/Scandinavian/Norman etc. genes in our makeup. I suppose what really matters, in this respect is, where we feel that we are ‘from’.
Anyhoo, (quaint Norfolk expression which a certain person seems to have adopted
), good luck with your researches.
Yes, I did see Freda’s entry - fantastic result as well as HH’s subsequent report
Now off to do yet more research,
Kind regards,
Neville
Rod said,
March 26, 2010 @ 8:08 am
Neville,
your post did indeed stir me up and I’ve been thinking which line to pursue, either Ramster, Collins or my mother’s side.
You make a geat point which I did think about - accuracy and one mistake - it could put me miles off track.
There’s no doubt were the original immigrants around here.
I enjoyed a great argument with a Welshman once who hates the English.
I infuriated him by saying the Welsh are the true English ! The Saxons and drove the English into the Welsh hills - we’re all Viking warrior - and much the better for it I suspect
Best
Rod
PS my viking ancestry could explain my affinity with Sabaton
Rod said,
March 26, 2010 @ 8:56 am
Here’s the first thing I’ve found:
Listed as as Prisoner for insolvency and Debt in the London Gazette - 12 March 1841
Thomas Ramster, of No. 11, Russell-street, Exeter, then of No. 22, Queen-street, Plymouth, Devon, then of Rackstreet, and late of Pancras-street, Exeter, Saddle Tree Maker
PaulR said,
May 18, 2010 @ 10:42 am
Saw this thread on the Ramster family, and thought I’d report in.
Never been able to find out much about my family history, other than I’m told that my paternal grandfather, Martin Putt Ramster originally came from Brixham.
Paul
Rod said,
May 18, 2010 @ 7:44 pm
Paul,
thanks for the comment and welcome to the site.
I know the Ramster side of my family originate from Brixham . . .
Not sure if that means there’s a connection or not ?
Best
Rod
PaulR said,
May 25, 2010 @ 4:17 pm
According to my father, his father was born and grew up in Brixham around the turn of the century, and had many brothers and sisters (5? 6?), none of which he kept in touch with.
More than one emigrated - at least one to Canada, and he things maybe one to Australia too.
So I’d say it’s more than likely that we are related - possibly a shared great-grandparent.
My grandfather moved to Milford Haven in the 1920’s where he married and had two sons.
Rod said,
May 25, 2010 @ 6:56 pm
Paul,
do you know any names as I’ve got a Ramster fmaily tree here going back to the 1700s
Best
Rod
PaulR said,
June 30, 2010 @ 4:46 pm
The only name I have is my paternal grandfather: Martin Putt Ramster. Born in Brixham sometime around the turn of the century. Would be interested in knowing if he appears in your Ramster family tree. And indeed, if I do too!
Rod said,
June 30, 2010 @ 7:56 pm
Paul,
Martin is not on my list but I think the part I’ve got could be too early fo rturn of the century.
I’ll try and get a complete copy of the whole thing.
Best
Rod
Amiguru said,
June 30, 2010 @ 8:56 pm
Paul, Rod,
Martin Ramster, born Brixham, Devon was aged 7 in 1901. Not much to go on but at least it gives a birth year give or take of 1893/4. Hope this helps and will pot anthing else I come across.
Regards,
Neville
Rod said,
July 1, 2010 @ 7:51 am
Neville,
many thanks, the part of the tree I have stops before that date - I’m trying to get the full thing
Cheers
Rod
louise said,
July 2, 2010 @ 6:25 pm
Brixham heritage museum holds the parrish records for BMD’s going back hundred of years. They will search their records for a small donation. Intrestingly you think your name has a Dutch origins, William of Orange landed in Brixham in 1688, bringing with him over 30,000 men!
Rod said,
July 2, 2010 @ 7:32 pm
Louise,
many thanks for the information and welcome to the site - William of Orange is far too interesting to be related to me I fear
All the best
Rod
PaulR said,
September 5, 2010 @ 11:14 pm
Extermely interrupted conversation, but on the off chance that you are still interested, here is some data about my branch of the Ramster family.
As far as I can find out…
My Grandfather - Martin Putt Ramster was born in Jun 1893 in Brixham, the son of Henry (Harry) Ramster (b. Jun 1847) and Mary Jane Ramster nee Snell (b. Sep 1851), Mary Jane Snell appears to have had two children (John Snell and Anna Snell) by one John Snell prior to her marriage to Harry Ramster. She then had six further children with Harry - Harry Warren, Mary Jane (known as Polly), Edith, Bertha, Alica Jordain and (finally) Martin Putt.
Putt appears to have been chosen as Martin Putt’s middle name as it was the maiden name of his Grandmother; Mary Jane Snell’s parents being William Snell and Mary Grace Putt.
Not sure why the father of Mary Jane Snell’s first two children and her father had the same surname, but perhaps the research is flawed - or perhaps there’s something that is better left undiscovered in that part of the family history!
Henry/Harry’s father is another Henry (b. 1813), who married Harriet Langworthy (b.1814). They had 4 children - Wiliam, Harry, Richard L and Mary G.
There’s no Percival Dean Ramster anywhere in there, but I found a Percival Bean Ramster - aged 7 in 1851. Assuming that’s just a transcription error, that would make your ancestor born in ~1847, the same year as my great-grandfather Harry, and in the same town. The two families probably knew each other, but we don’t seem to be related - at least as far as my research goes.
Would be happy to receive any further info you have on the Ramsters of Brixham in the 19th Century.
Rod said,
September 6, 2010 @ 8:16 am
Paul,
thanks for the info, much appreciated. I’m still waiting for the ful family tree to be sent to my parents - I’ll have more info then.
The partial chart I have show Percy Dean Ramster born 1890 died 1933 - sadly very young and died without issue
Best
Rod
History Hunter said,
September 6, 2010 @ 10:19 am
I regularly stroll round Scartho Road Cemetery, and have seen at least 6 or 7 Ramster’s buried there. Must have been a decent sized family in the area as they were nearly all back at the turn of the 20th Century.
Rod said,
September 6, 2010 @ 12:20 pm
HH,
I’ll make enquiries to see if there’s a connection
Thanks
Rod
Gail Knight said,
September 9, 2010 @ 7:40 pm
Hello Rod and PaulR,
I don’t know how far you’ve got with your Ramster history but I think that I can help link you from my own research (it’s my boyfriend’s surname. I was looking at it in 2009 and my notes are in tatters, but I explained what I found in an email to his dad at the time so have copied some of that into the below) (Oh my boyfriend is JW IV’s cousin!).
The furthest direct ancestor of my bf’s (and yours) that I found was William Ramster who married Betty Johns in Brixham on 25 May 1800. There’s another family of Ramsters in St Sidwell, Exeter at this time, but I can’t prove how they’re related (I’ve just been using the internet). Many of the St Sidwell Ramsters’ decendents appear later in the West Midlands and London.
There’s also a record in a book of a Ramster dying in a fire in Tiverton in Elizabethan times, but that’s definitely the furthest back I’ve seen!
http://books.google.com/books?id=t8sHAAAAQAAJ&dq=ramster%20fire&pg=PA23#v=onepage&q=ramster%20fire&f=false
So William and Betty had many children (but it’s hard to tell how many survive to have their own families).
The ‘important’ ones are Thomas, Sarah, Mary Ann, John (your ancestor Rod) and Henry (PaulR’s ancestor).
William and Betty’s children Thomas, Sarah and Mary Ann all got married in Ramsgate, Kent, although Thomas and Sarah were both marrying Brixham-born people, and they both moved to Hull and Lincolnshire respectively shortly after their marriages. Their families worked as Mast and Block Makers. There seems to have been a lot of migration from Ramsgate to other ports in shipbuilding at the time (according to Google). Sarah married a William Carlile and they didn’t have any children of their own but many of her future nieces were named Sarah Carlile so she must have been nice
Thomas married Ann Collier and their many children make up the majority of the Hull Ramster population. I think there’s a connection between their son John Ramster and the first manager of Hull City football club James Ramster (although I can’t prove it!)
William and Betty’s son John, your ancestor, married Elizabeth Bowden and had 5 children; Mary Elizabeth, John, Sarah, Martha and Anna. John the elder died young the year Anna was born in 1850, and his widow Elizabeth is working as a greengrocer by the time of the 1851 census. His children John and Sarah both moved to Grimsby after their father’s death and got married (Sarah stayed with her aunt Sarah Carlile for a while first).
This younger John Ramster married Susannah Surfleet, a Grimsby girl, and had lots of children (the family in the census post above by Amiguru). These included John William I, Rose your great grandmother?, Percy (Percival Dean), Ernest who had a very large family of his own in Grimsby, and Bowden, named after his grandmother Elizabeth Bowden and owner of fishing trawlers.
Finally, (and I /Think/ this is right…) William and Betty’s son Henry married 3 times. He eventually moved to Hull as did his first son, William, but his second son, Henry, stayed in Brixham and married Mary Jane Snell.
Henry and Mary Jane had 13 children, however 8 died in birth or childhood. It’s one of the saddest things that I found. As Paul said his grandfather Martin Putt was born in 1893. They had a previous child named Martin Putt, born 1883 died 1885. According to my mum it’s very common to reuse a name if the child dies(!)
I think some of Martin’s siblings moved to Wales (Haverford West) where they seem to have stayed. I can’t remember how I know this (!) but I think it would be quite easy to find Paul’s second cousins. Some others seemed to have stayed in Devon. I seem to remember a record (the 1911census?) where Henry, Mary Jane and their youngest Martin are in Sussex or Surrey, which was weird - a family holiday perhaps?!. That bit is entirely from memory though.
Henry and Mary Jane definitely didn’t leave Brixham, as they lived on Union Lane when they died and were buried in the Higher Brixham non-conformist cemetery in 1926 and 1927 respectively.
So you’re… 4th cousins once removed?! maybe…!
Paul it’s interesting that you said some of your grandfather’s siblings moved to Canada and Australia - I’ve found Ramsters in Australia but never known how they were linked, and there’s a Canadian Hunting Knife called Ramster!
As someone else mentioned, contacting Brixham Heritage Museum would be an interesting step and I’m sure you could link all the Ramsters in the country!
Rod said,
September 10, 2010 @ 7:15 am
Gail,
thanks for this - hugely appreciated and welcome to the site.
I’m going to go over it against the partial family tree and follow it properly
Many thans indeed - I’ll be back Gail
Fabulous
Rod
Rod said,
September 10, 2010 @ 8:01 pm
Gail,
A few points following your great comment:
I’ve got William and Betty as the earliest on my tree as well
John & Elizabeth Bowden Their child named John sadly died of Typhus aged 5 - 1837 - 1842
Your information is better thank mine Gail but it ties in with my partial tree perfectly - I’m still awaiting more information from the family - hopefully it will arrive one day
I presume I’m related somehow to your boyfriend Gail - send him my regards
All the best
Rod
Gail Knight said,
September 13, 2010 @ 5:17 pm
Hi Rod,
That’s sad, I think that must be an earlier son of theirs - another John Ramster is born in 1844, and appears on the 1851 census with Elizabeth and his sisters. How did you find out about the typhus?
Gail
Rod said,
September 13, 2010 @ 6:35 pm
Gail that’s what it appears to me if I read the tree correctly, born before Mary and then another John in 1844.
By the name is written - Brixham died Typhus Fever
Best
Rod
Rod said,
September 16, 2010 @ 5:42 pm
Picture Update:
the headstone of Percy Dean Ramster who is pictured in uniform above
PaulR said,
September 30, 2010 @ 11:40 am
Gail said
“I think some of Martin’s siblings moved to Wales (Haverford West) where they seem to have stayed. I can’t remember how I know this (!) but I think it would be quite easy to find Paul’s second cousins. Some others seemed to have stayed in Devon.”
Not just some of Martin Putt Ramster’s siblings, but Martin himself moved to Wales. His eldest brother owned a butcher’s shop in Milford Haven, and Martin worked in that shop all his working life as far as I’m aware. That’s where my uncle and father were both born. The whole family moved to London after the war (WWII), and that’s where I was born. I don’t know anything else about the brother (Harry?) that owned the butcher’s shop though.
ray said,
October 24, 2010 @ 11:52 pm
My greatgrandparents were John and Susannah Ramster,Thanks for photo`s,
ray said,
October 25, 2010 @ 12:36 am
Albert Collins, my records suggest he was born in Scotland ?, found 3 Children:-Rose.Albert, and Denzal.
After Albert died , They all went to live with their grandmother
ray said,
October 25, 2010 @ 6:47 am
Errors
It was John Sutherland, Rose Ramster`s Brother in law who was born in Scotland.
John and Susannah were my Great-Great-Grandparents.
Rod said,
October 25, 2010 @ 7:28 am
Ray,
thanks for the comment and welcome to the site - I suspect we’re relatives then !?!
Would that be John and Susannah Ramster born in Grimsby 1844 and 1847 respectively ?
I may try and get a schematic of the family tree available to me up here on the site somehow
All the best
Rod
PS: Ray would you like a picture of the John and Susannah Ramster headstone putting up here ?
Don’t know whether you’re local or not Ray.
Rod said,
October 26, 2010 @ 9:52 am
Ray,
my father has asked me if you know the name of your great Grandfather ?
Best
Rod
ray said,
October 28, 2010 @ 11:46 pm
Hello again
My great Grandfather was Ernest Ramster , he married Elizabeth Scarborough on the 4/2/1897 . My grandmother was Ethel Ramster , my father, Bill Neul died in 1974 aged 49
John Ramster Was born in Brixham in 1844, he married in Grimsby to Susannah Surfleet.His Sisters
Sarah,Anna and Martha are all on the Grimsby Census
ray
Rod said,
October 29, 2010 @ 7:22 pm
Ray,
just received this from my mother:
I have spoken to Cousin Jean in Lincoln today about Ernest Ramster (see Ray’s comments on your blog).
She recalls that Ernest and Rose Ramster appear to have been very close as siblings. They used to take a cart laden with crabs etc. to Isaac’s Hill at Cleethorpes to sell to trippers.
Ernest died young before Jean and Dad were born.
Jean thought she remembered the following names of Ernest children: George, Elsie, Rose and Lou Lou (possibly Louise). If Ethel Ramster is Ray’s grandmother, she must be another sibling of those named.
History Hunter said,
June 30, 2011 @ 2:37 am
I have just found a list of Enrolled Freemen of Grimsby and you will be please to know that there are 6 Ramster’s on there. The dates are when they were accepted as Freemen of the Town.
RAMSTER John William - 4 May 1893
RAMSTER Ernest - 12 Jul 1897
RAMSTER Henry - 15 Jun 1904
RAMSTER Bowden - 1 Jul 1907
RAMSTER Arthur - 1 Mar 1910
and look who we have here. None other than the main man…..Percy Dean Ramster!
RAMSTER Percy Dean - 5 Aug 1911
I’m beginning to think there may be more to him, than just being your relative, as he must have been notable in town by the age of 21 for him to be accepted as a Freeman! Note it happened before WW1 so probably wont be military related.
Rod said,
June 30, 2011 @ 7:08 am
HH,
many thanks indeed, very interesting - I was a Freeman at the age of 21 so that makes notability questionable
I’ve just checked the family tree I have HH and every one of the people you’ve mentioned is on it so they’re not just coincidental names but my relatives !
Fantastic
In appreciation
Rod