Comments on: Knights Templar Church Haltham on Bain Lincolnshire http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/knights-templar-church-haltham-on-bain-lincolnshire A Site About Everything and Nothing Thu, 09 Feb 2012 05:02:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.2 Comment on Knights Templar Church Haltham on Bain Lincolnshire by: andrew http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/knights-templar-church-haltham-on-bain-lincolnshire#comment-18811 Thu, 24 Feb 2011 13:36:55 +0000 http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/knights-templar-church-haltham-on-bain-lincolnshire#comment-18811 The image on the right resembles a swastika or "running cross". The image on the right resembles a swastika or “running cross”.

]]> Comment on Knights Templar Church Haltham on Bain Lincolnshire by: Templar http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/knights-templar-church-haltham-on-bain-lincolnshire#comment-15799 Tue, 07 Sep 2010 07:59:42 +0000 http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/knights-templar-church-haltham-on-bain-lincolnshire#comment-15799 Rod - Coptic Cross, lintel stone, Egypt, New York Metro Museum entered into google give you one answer to your question about what kind of cross you are seeing. One can only imagine the feeling a Knight must have experienced as the Templars marched into the Holy Land and saw designs on ossuaries and Churches that Templars had seen being used in their Churches since the time of the Romans. Affirmation of the Templar cause would have been in the heart of every Knight. The Coptic Cross and Rosette are two designs that do not get enough credit for their historical significants. Rod - Coptic Cross, lintel stone, Egypt, New York Metro Museum entered into google give you one answer to your question about what kind of cross you are seeing. One can only imagine the feeling a Knight must have experienced as the Templars marched into the Holy Land and saw designs on ossuaries and Churches that Templars had seen being used in their Churches since the time of the Romans. Affirmation of the Templar cause would have been in the heart of every Knight. The Coptic Cross and Rosette are two designs that do not get enough credit for their historical significants.

]]> Comment on Knights Templar Church Haltham on Bain Lincolnshire by: Amiguru http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/knights-templar-church-haltham-on-bain-lincolnshire#comment-14393 Fri, 25 Jun 2010 17:10:26 +0000 http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/knights-templar-church-haltham-on-bain-lincolnshire#comment-14393 Tim, The Marmion Arms is in Main Road, Haltham. If you go to Streetview you will see that when filmed, it was up for sale unfortunately. :( Regards, Neville Tim,

The Marmion Arms is in Main Road, Haltham. If you go to Streetview you will see that when filmed, it was up for sale unfortunately. :(

Regards,
Neville

]]> Comment on Knights Templar Church Haltham on Bain Lincolnshire by: Rod http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/knights-templar-church-haltham-on-bain-lincolnshire#comment-14389 Fri, 25 Jun 2010 16:35:40 +0000 http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/knights-templar-church-haltham-on-bain-lincolnshire#comment-14389 Tim, thanks for the comment. I would imagine that as a publican he owned and ran the public house. As publican his name would be over the door - that said he need not necessarily have had to 'man the pumps' himself of course. I'm not sure about the Marmion Arms as I live some way off but perhaps somebody reading this may be able to help with more information for you Tim Best of luck with the search All the best Rod Tim,
thanks for the comment. I would imagine that as a publican he owned and ran the public house. As publican his name would be over the door - that said he need not necessarily have had to ‘man the pumps’ himself of course.

I’m not sure about the Marmion Arms as I live some way off but perhaps somebody reading this may be able to help with more information for you Tim
Best of luck with the search
All the best
Rod

]]> Comment on Knights Templar Church Haltham on Bain Lincolnshire by: Tim Topham http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/knights-templar-church-haltham-on-bain-lincolnshire#comment-14386 Fri, 25 Jun 2010 12:41:36 +0000 http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/knights-templar-church-haltham-on-bain-lincolnshire#comment-14386 Hi, Rod. Read your article on St. Benedict's Church with interest. I visited about three months ago on a hunt for my ancestors; one (at least) of whom was Joseph Daft whose gravestone I found. There should have been a gravestone for his son, Harrap Daft, but I couldn't spot it. I know it doesn't relate to our article but could you use your local knowledge to help me out? The above Joseph's father, also Joseph Daft, was apparently a publican as well as a farmer. Would he have actually kept a pub separately or as part of his farm, do you think? Could he have kept the Marmion Arms (he died in 1772)? Finally - has the Marmion Arms become a casualty of the tough economic situation, do you know,? I don't seem to be able to contact anyone at the pub. Thanks for your time. Regards. Tim Hi, Rod. Read your article on St. Benedict’s Church with interest. I visited about three months ago on a hunt for my ancestors; one (at least) of whom was Joseph Daft whose gravestone I found. There should have been a gravestone for his son, Harrap Daft, but I couldn’t spot it.
I know it doesn’t relate to our article but could you use your local knowledge to help me out? The above Joseph’s father, also Joseph Daft, was apparently a publican as well as a farmer. Would he have actually kept a pub separately or as part of his farm, do you think? Could he have kept the Marmion Arms (he died in 1772)? Finally - has the Marmion Arms become a casualty of the tough economic situation, do you know,? I don’t seem to be able to contact anyone at the pub.
Thanks for your time. Regards. Tim

]]> Comment on Knights Templar Church Haltham on Bain Lincolnshire by: Rod http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/knights-templar-church-haltham-on-bain-lincolnshire#comment-12311 Mon, 29 Mar 2010 17:33:59 +0000 http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/knights-templar-church-haltham-on-bain-lincolnshire#comment-12311 Rick, that's a good name, Guy de Raimbeaucourt pops up all over in my initial searches - many thanks Best Rod Rick,
that’s a good name, Guy de Raimbeaucourt pops up all over in my initial searches - many thanks
Best
Rod

]]> Comment on Knights Templar Church Haltham on Bain Lincolnshire by: Rick http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/knights-templar-church-haltham-on-bain-lincolnshire#comment-12308 Mon, 29 Mar 2010 12:50:34 +0000 http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/knights-templar-church-haltham-on-bain-lincolnshire#comment-12308 The Domesday book entry for Haltham village mentions a Guy de Raimbeaucourt and his son Ingelrann, as well as a church of Syston. Ingelrann doesn't sound a typical Norman French name, so it could be that the de Raimbeaucourts were a mixed Norman/Saxon family, which might help with the mixed imagery. The Domesday book entry for Haltham village mentions a Guy de Raimbeaucourt and his son Ingelrann, as well as a church of Syston. Ingelrann doesn’t sound a typical Norman French name, so it could be that the de Raimbeaucourts were a mixed Norman/Saxon family, which might help with the mixed imagery.

]]> Comment on Knights Templar Church Haltham on Bain Lincolnshire by: Rod http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/knights-templar-church-haltham-on-bain-lincolnshire#comment-12305 Mon, 29 Mar 2010 07:51:13 +0000 http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/knights-templar-church-haltham-on-bain-lincolnshire#comment-12305 Rick, thanks for the fabulous and well-reasoned input and welcome to the site. There's much to think about in what you say and your final hypothesis. As to the design, I don't put huge import on the accuracy of the design but more the style and feel. It is after all <i>symbolism</i> and I'm sure at the time basic shapes and symbols would have been near enough so to speak for all but the most important buildings and situations. Very interesting stuff Rick All the best Rod Rick,
thanks for the fabulous and well-reasoned input and welcome to the site.
There’s much to think about in what you say and your final hypothesis.
As to the design, I don’t put huge import on the accuracy of the design but more the style and feel.
It is after all symbolism and I’m sure at the time basic shapes and symbols would have been near enough so to speak for all but the most important buildings and situations.

Very interesting stuff Rick
All the best
Rod

]]> Comment on Knights Templar Church Haltham on Bain Lincolnshire by: Rick http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/knights-templar-church-haltham-on-bain-lincolnshire#comment-12301 Mon, 29 Mar 2010 02:46:02 +0000 http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/knights-templar-church-haltham-on-bain-lincolnshire#comment-12301 On the other hand (heh, heh). Two other symbols look significant from this decoration. The first is above and to the right of the cross and consists of a series of triangles, a decoration seen in Norman shield design, where the shield is covered with alternating triangles in 2 strongly contrasting colours. The second symbol is at the bottom left and looks a bit like a scallop shell. "the scallop shell badge of a pilgrim who has been to the shrine of St. James at Compostella. The scallop-shell is a common charge in the arms of English knights, many of whom stopped off en route to the Holy Land to serve against the Moors in Spain under the banner of the Order of Santiago." The Order of Santiago was set up in 1175, but it's symbol was a sword, not a cross. My theory, for the sake of argument, is that this might have been put in place by a local knight who 'took the cross' and joined a crusade, then settled near the church on it's conclusion. On the other hand (heh, heh). Two other symbols look significant from this decoration. The first is above and to the right of the cross and consists of a series of triangles, a decoration seen in Norman shield design, where the shield is covered with alternating triangles in 2 strongly contrasting colours. The second symbol is at the bottom left and looks a bit like a scallop shell. “the scallop shell badge of a pilgrim who has been to the shrine of St. James at Compostella. The scallop-shell is a common charge in the arms of English knights, many of whom stopped off en route to the Holy Land to serve against the Moors in Spain under the banner of the Order of Santiago.” The Order of Santiago was set up in 1175, but it’s symbol was a sword, not a cross. My theory, for the sake of argument, is that this might have been put in place by a local knight who ‘took the cross’ and joined a crusade, then settled near the church on it’s conclusion.

]]> Comment on Knights Templar Church Haltham on Bain Lincolnshire by: Rick http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/knights-templar-church-haltham-on-bain-lincolnshire#comment-12300 Mon, 29 Mar 2010 01:40:01 +0000 http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/knights-templar-church-haltham-on-bain-lincolnshire#comment-12300 Not sure about this at all. True - it has the wider extensions of the arms of the cross, but it also has a circle inside the outer circle, connecting these arms. This reminds me more of an early christian "celtic" type cross, many of which also had wide extensions to the arms, and which sometimes had examples of celtic knotwork associated with them, similiar to the forfoil at the bottom right of the cross. Also, the time frame seems wrong - the symbol of the early knights templar was the cross of lorraine, the maltese cross came in a bit later. Not sure about this at all. True - it has the wider extensions of the arms of the cross, but it also has a circle inside the outer circle, connecting these arms. This reminds me more of an early christian “celtic” type cross, many of which also had wide extensions to the arms, and which sometimes had examples of celtic knotwork associated with them, similiar to the forfoil at the bottom right of the cross. Also, the time frame seems wrong - the symbol of the early knights templar was the cross of lorraine, the maltese cross came in a bit later.

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