Derren Brown Roulette Trick Did He Get it Wrong On Purpose ?
Derren Brown’s Roulette Trick - Did he deliberately fail ?
Having just watched Derren Brown’s Events TV show on Channel 4 called How to Beat a Casino and being surprised at him having failed my immediate thought was . . . did he really fail ?
There is a great deal to be gained in terms of credibility from being seen to, seemingly, fail but come very close.
It says to us the audience look how honest I am - you expected me to get it right but I didn’t - however I didn’t hide the fact, have another go or not show the film - I failed in public.
But did he actually get it wrong - perhaps he actually got the number he wanted !
He did get the number next to 8 so was a close as possible which does count as something very impressive.
It now, by definition, suggests that it was not a trick or clever scam but he really was gauging the speed of the wheel and velocity of the ball and predicting where it would actually land.
Had he won the £175,000 then many people would be saying, was it a real casino, was the whole thing fixed, how do we know it was genuine.
As it was he still produced a great show and an amazing result - he did lose 5 grand, which he is paying back to the member of public, but £5k is pennies in TV production.
Add this to the mix:
What would be the possible ramifications had he actually taken the house for £175,000 ?
It would have become known to the casino operators and who knows what possible legal ramifications or backlash may have ensued.
Because of this I put this theory to you.
Derren Brown did not mess it up - the ending was exactly what he wanted - he failed on purpose !
I’d be interested to hear what others think, all theories, opinions, ideas and general comments are welcome.
Let us know whether you think it was a trick gone wrong or another great piece of misdirection by the maestro
All the best
Rod
James K said,
October 2, 2009 @ 10:43 pm
Wow, yes very good point. I did immediately think after watching it that if he failed, then surely none of his tricks have been fixed - maybe this was intended? However, everything up to that point was incredible.
timmyraa2 said,
October 2, 2009 @ 10:54 pm
I think your right, he processes a brilliant ability though. I believe every thing he does to be authentic other wise an insider would of leaked him to the press for big bucks ages ago…. He was very close though, only 1 out. It could of easily bounced back out into 8 and won and then its a completely different ending to the show. I personally think that its totally impossible to predect the exact number it’ll fall in but Derren Brown deffinately shows you that its possible to predict what area it’ll fall in. Hes just got it down to a tea! perfect show! Hes a real genius band makes Jesus look like paul Daniels!!! :O) ‘not alot!’
danny(london) said,
October 2, 2009 @ 10:56 pm
Derren Brown is an illusionist and a great one at that and has spent a long time making himself credible for these big stunts. They are not real, He can’t predict the lottery and he cannot predict where a roulette wheel ball will land but he is very entertaining and enjoyable to watch.
I agree with you that he got the exact result he wanted. Credibility.
Tom said,
October 2, 2009 @ 10:58 pm
i completely agree.
the ending aswell, such a confusing and odd ending with no on having a clue what was going on is just the type of way that an entertainer like derren would go out of an outstanding series. It provokes people to think about him and his methods, if he had won the money people would a) call him a fake and b) forget about it after talking about it for five minutes. But this hype over the supposed “failure” makes everyone wonder what happened. I think it was an absolutely genius ending and completely planned from the start, can’t wait for his next shows in november!
mike said,
October 2, 2009 @ 10:59 pm
well…….i sorta thought he was supost to fail on the roulette…….because i thought …….even tho the casino is rich……that he would sort of steal 175 grand off of them which would cause problems when they find out and complain ;P ……….and the idea of making that guy think for sure he would win 175000 was pricless xD…………im sure everyone thought he was going to win 175000…….and …..well……..this was part of his trick that u never thought was going to happen…….PS. i feel sorry for the guy being all nervious about the whole thing and end up doing it for nothing LOL
Justin Rolfe said,
October 2, 2009 @ 11:02 pm
What a cliff hanger! After the totally unbelievable lottery win, where he was dismissed as illusionism, I’m convinved that he’s grabing public attention before the next series.
He never really claims to be true. This was a casino in Europe. He never claimed it wasn’t a set. He just said “casino in mainland Europe”. The croupier spoke in perfect English, then announced the number in French. That just isn’t consistent.
He’s an entertainer, and an excellent one, but this was a set.
Mike Kenny said,
October 2, 2009 @ 11:05 pm
Yea i agree, getting it correct when it was done so ’secretive’ would cause a huge number of problems as he would be taking a large amount of money away. However i cant help thinking, what are the chances of being able to sneak two cameras into a legit casino? Another reason i think it was lost on purpose was the crew member at the end who seemed to have his lines well rehearsed.
Unknown legend said,
October 2, 2009 @ 11:07 pm
Ok, this is what he did: (IT WAS NOT LIVE)
He filmed the roullette landing on the number. Then on the next turn he placed 5,000 on whatever the number next to the real result was. Next he changed the footage so it looked like he placed the bet before the roulette spin. So he may have lost 5grand but he did infact show make us think that he was nearly correct! The reason why he didn’t make himself win was because then he would have to pay the guy he stole 5k off 180k! So basically he did not know how to predict the roulette although he made it seem like he could get very close at the mere cost(to him) 5,000.
simeon lees said,
October 2, 2009 @ 11:08 pm
interesting theory, I have to say.
though I wouldn’t say he was trying to get that number, at least through his mistake he’s told the nation that he hasn’t cheated on any of the previous episodes.
I mean I don’t know, you could be right, but it’s hard to draw judgement from something that no-one saw coming, so it’ll be interesting to hear what Derren has to say about the whole thing.
Kath said,
October 2, 2009 @ 11:11 pm
I’m not sure whether he meant to fail or not..
I was shocked that he got it close so either way I think it’s amazing entertainment!
Phil Yeo said,
October 2, 2009 @ 11:13 pm
It seems like no-one can see the obvious signs! I may only be a teenager but I’ve noticed things others haven’t! As you said there would be a huge up-roar if he had one, but also if you were to look on the offical website on C4 a few moments after the show, a text was there which says ‘last night’ I tried to predict the outcome of a roullete and was succesful - well almost - or something like that (for more info refer to www.channel4.co.uk/derrenbrown anyway there is no way that derren could have written that INSIDE the casino from a secret location, and the website would have been set to update after a certain amount if time. And so I PUT IT TO YOU that C4 and the producers knew what the outcome would be because of all of the reasons above.
Wat do u think?
Daniel said,
October 2, 2009 @ 11:17 pm
I see what you mean, but then why have the man at the side of the van with the check? he was plainly visible when the camera moved back. I think he meant to get it right and that’s why he was in a foreign country. who knows what happened as fas as the public knows though, Derren Brown failed, but i loose no respect for the man, to do a sum to work that put so fast and be only one number off was very good. Id like to say my friends theory too though, she said that she thinks he was in the random first van and it was a set up, i see her point but doubt it but there you go another theory for you.
fc said,
October 2, 2009 @ 11:19 pm
yeah just saw it also, was weird guess it would be dodgy if he really did it, the casino wud b on his arse!
Adam said,
October 2, 2009 @ 11:26 pm
Frankly what load of rubbish. The events has been pretty anti climatic. The Lottery trick was just cheap, the SOfa stuff was pretty good, the physic spy one was a complete waste of television, and tonights; well the cars was impressive, but he failed, big time.
Jack said,
October 2, 2009 @ 11:29 pm
Hmmmmm well there is another possibility which is that he never went to a real casino, the whole thing was not live and so he was able to get the exact result he wanted as it was all set-up months ago.
Getting it slightly wrong reinforced the feeling that he was doing it for real. This theory is backed up by the fact that we have absolutely no information on that casino and we have to take his “word” that he is really doing what he is doing. Also no camera quality is so bad these days, that was made to “look” bad so it looked real. The corruption in the image seen looked like an analogue recording, something that would not be being used in this day and age.
It is not in my view possible for him to have calculated what he says he was calculating. The whole show was very clever “miss direction”.
Cyber said,
October 2, 2009 @ 11:32 pm
This is exactly what I was thinking after the show, he is a clever man if he got it that close, and not failing though his other programs, I think he got the outcome he really wanted
Jamie Ross said,
October 2, 2009 @ 11:44 pm
Hi,
I had a gut feeling that it was all meant to go wrong in the end as soon as it did, it makes perfect sense, as well as giving Derren some extra credibility in terms of the other events, they all “could” have failed, but didn’t, this one did, so how could it have been a fix? Your right, it was a fantastic piece of entertainment, well worth watching and a good end to a fantastic little series.
Keith Malecki said,
October 2, 2009 @ 11:45 pm
I completely agree with you!
Look at the National Lottery prediction; all people wanted to do was sweat it out trying to prove he could never have done it by thinking up several different ways it could have been fixed.
I never once thought he’d actually walk away with £175,000.00 this evening because the casino would have chewed his nuts off for it!
Imagine if he’d bought a Lottery ticket with his predicted numbers on it and scooped several million; all the grotty chavs in this country that craved the jackpot to buy themselves even bigger gold chains and spoilers for their Saxo’s would have shat bricks and Derren would have been hauled over the coals for some sort of fraud charge.
Well done Mr Brown; you still never fail to astound me.
(I just wish you’d thrown Westwood infront of the Ford doing 49mph!!!)
Mark said,
October 2, 2009 @ 11:51 pm
I agree with your points. I thought this too.
However what also made me think it was a scam is that a bank supposedly allowed someone to draw £5,000 out without any prior warning or passport/bank book etc. Most banks allow you £500 max a day withdrawal with a card. This didn’t ring true. Nor did the lack of passers by when he was hypnotising the guy in the street.
Mike Delaney said,
October 3, 2009 @ 12:00 am
I totally agree with you and shared the exact same feelings as I had finished watching the show.
Contrary to many, I have been impressed with The Events series and how it has affected so many people in many ways (tonight will be no exception of course).
For the past 3 weeks there has been some kind of twist or reveal at the very end of every episode (having said this I can’t actually remember one for the “How to control a Nation” episode). As soon as I saw the number “30″ on tonight’s episode I instantly thought, wait there is a clever twist here something to do with the man in the van and a prediction or some other ocean’s 11 style twist. However, as soon as I had reflected on the previous reveals in the other episodes I instantly realized that this was in fact the twist; him getting the “wrong” number. Similarly to the director Lars Von Trier, you should never really believe what he says or take anything at face value. He stated himself that the entire series of “The Events” was essentially about misdirection.
The deliberate bathos of the very end, the producer’s awkward “don’t worry you will get your money back” and the sheer silence with no explanation or even “thanks for watching the past month”, add to this sense of contrivance I continue to feel as I re-watch the last 5 minutes for about the third time.
One thing for sure is that it was incredibly gripping entertainment and for that I thank Derren.
p.s. I also agree completely with your point about the legal ramifications, because no doubt whatever casino it was there would eventually be press spreading etc.
Lee Johnston said,
October 3, 2009 @ 12:11 am
Hi Rod, Completely agree with you. By far the best outcome for Derren was to fail, it keeps us en-thrilled by the whole thing, and starts blog posts like this. People start questioning.. is it real is it not real, which is the whole entertainment factor of magic/mentalism as a performance. At the end of the day, Derren Brown is a showman, and a very good one at that! Cheers. Lee.
mark said,
October 3, 2009 @ 12:16 am
hi, you know what i think u might be on to something here. i thought the exact same thing but befor he even got it wrong. he is really good, perhaps he thought the puiblic thought he was too good and must be fake so like you said showed he isnt perfect. either way he is top quality !!!
Dan said,
October 3, 2009 @ 12:18 am
5 mins before he attempted the trick…..
I turned to my missus and said “if he fails at this it will give him more credibility”…..
Then sure enough he fails but ‘nearly’ does it…!
Clever man!
Also, do note that a camera was videoing the roulette wheel and balls spinning. Could this have been used to help calculate a better guess at were the ball was going to land via a computer being hooked up to the feed….!
Chris said,
October 3, 2009 @ 12:58 am
That was my theory too… but id be pretty pissed if i were the ben guy… getting my hopes high on winning 175,000 and then getting nothing at all but it was good… i wander if he will reveal if it was deliberate or not some time…
Emma said,
October 3, 2009 @ 1:20 am
Hi Rod, just came across your site!
Certainly this result was a better one. The perfectness of the lottery ‘prediction’ was TOO good to be true, if he’d got this one spot on tonight, it would have left the audience thinking ‘oh, here he goes again’… and of course people are now going to be drawn in more.
I love Derren and what he does, always have. I’m kind of glad he (deliberately or not) got it off by one. I think it’s good for the viewing.
It certainly left a lot of suspense. The only REAL thing that gave him away was the bad acting by the camera man just after he’d failed. ‘Ben, don’t worry, you’ll get your money back’… I just didn’t buy it.
I’ve always loved Derren’s honesty, but it worries me that these ‘Events’ might have changed people’s trust in him, for the worse. At the beginning of the show, it said at the bottom of the screen that NO actors or stooges were used. I’m not saying Ben was. He could have easily have been led on by Derren, just as he’d said. But if camera men and extras are in on his tricks then it goes against it completely. That casino didn’t look real. The hidden camera work looked deliberately shoddy.
Nevertheless, I love Derren. He’s a genius.
JD said,
October 3, 2009 @ 1:22 am
Whilst your theories are interesting, the simple fact that he failed doesn’t give away much.
I will not talk about the maths involved here in terms of estimating the number. I do believe it is possible (as a computer can do it, so a human could feasibly pull it off too) and he has a very good mind for numbers. However - it could be a modified wheel or any number of things. Let’s not go into that though, as you seem to be concentrating on the fail.
Whilst watching, did you notice that we never saw more of the casino than the single table and the few select people around the table. Even the camera on the balcony was fuzzy and shaded at the edges to make sure that is all we could see.
Whilst the theory of failing so that the casino wasn’t taken for the full win is an appealing one - I would say there was no money involved and that that £5000 was safe.
On a side note, whilst Derren went in with “£5000″, the staff changed it into Euros. Now, whilst this could mean he was in another EU country - I think it was more likley a slip-up from the actor playing the roulette operator, who was obviously not english, but who was trained.
Another rule often played in roulette is that once the ball is rolling the table is closed. No bets can be placed. If he was supposedly showing people how to win - the place he was playing was surprisingly leniant on commonly used rules.
Lastly - no casino would allow filming inside without consent, and especially if there was a chance of a payout. As Derren himself said - they can and will spot electronics - a huge camera like that is a dead giveaway. Besides - it’s going to be obvious to any casino owner that it was their casino from the film and if he had won anything, they would have probably tried to sue channel four.
So this leaves a few interesting options.
First, he failed to do what was intended but it didn’t matter because there was no real money at stake. It was a fake casino. CH4 would have had to pay the full winning fee.
Secondly, he meant to fail so the tv company didn’t have to pay out, and there was not any risk of losing the £5000 because the casino was fake. But it was close enough to look good. And enough to make it look like there was no cheating going on in other episodes.
Thirdly, he meant to fail in either a real or fake casino, to end the show on a shock and get his whole audience to question him for a particular purpose.
The fourth option is that he meant to fail, he lost £5000 (or 5000 euros) to a real casino and the TV station has to pay it back.
Or the fifth is that he was actually going to rip a casino off of the full win and get away with it but failed to do so and lost £5000 (or 5000 euros) which CH4 is accountable for.
I think personally 2 sounds the most likely.
Of course there are more options, and three is a possible outcome but that’s my say in the matter.
Thanks
JD
Matthew M said,
October 3, 2009 @ 1:41 am
I think you have hit the nail on the head Rod. Although initially surprised that he didn’t win, I soon began to think that he did do it on purpose, as you said he did get the number right beside it. But, if you really want to know what I think, I think the Casino was staged, that’s why he would not let us know where it was, or the outside of the building, he is an illusionist after all. The hidden camera was surprisingly poor quality and I thought when the camera walked away from the trailer at the end he was going to pop round the corner with a deviant smile!
Jonathan said,
October 3, 2009 @ 2:16 am
Good post Rod,
I would have to say that I agree with your theory.
Viewers who watched the show will question what he does whether he gets them right or wrong. The ramifications of this performance may have been too great for him to confirm what he said he was going to do. I think people are fully aware of his knowledge and understanding of the mind, whether it relates to trickery or misdirection.
Derren’s objective is to make people think, to show how powerful the mind is and what tricks can be played. His ‘Events’ series, I think, have not been a simple, ‘Look what I can do live on national television’, but more of a ‘Look how people get so infused by a person saying that they can do something that is improbable/impossible’. In addition, it is clear that there are the expectations in Derren getting it right, and the continual opinions of whether he succeeds or not.
In my opinion, it does not matter whether Derren gets it exactly right or wrong. He is achieving his objectives and people are certainly thinking.
Kind regards,
Jonathan
Rod said,
October 3, 2009 @ 8:55 am
Thanks to all for the great comments on the article.
Another point I missed out when I wrote it was the actual man whose £5k it was.
Who was he and how was he selected ?
Derren admits only certain people are viable for the hypnosis and suggestion - add to that he needs somebody with 5 grand in a current account - add to that somebody who won’t go to the bank next day or get a statement then wonder where his money is !
This point also struck me, I think this is correct, whilst I was watching the ‘live’ part of it:
at no point did he ask the guy’s permission to bet his money !
The man is a genius and it’s pretty easy to fall into a paranoid Spy v Spy situation.
If he did fail deliberately did he want us to think he failed deliberately etc etc
All the best
Rod Collins
charlie said,
October 3, 2009 @ 10:38 am
he did not fail on purpose, what happened was his team were using the same devised used in the real hustle programme from last year where a computer is used and evertytime the ball passes a certain point and the zero passes a certain point a button is pushed and it predicts where the ball will land, ie in number 8. though this system will only get it right to within 1 either side. 9 times out of ten it will get it correct to the number and on this occasion it was the number next to 8. this is what he did and why it failed, he didnt do it on purpose - who would end a show so badly, he put the bet on, lost and it ended with everyone thinking they had just wasted an hour of their lives.
Bob said,
October 3, 2009 @ 11:48 am
“interesting theory, I have to say.
though I wouldn’t say he was trying to get that number, at least through his mistake he’s told the nation that he hasn’t cheated on any of the previous episodes.”
This would be what he wanted. The lottery one was fake, has to be. so by having this one fail peoples respect grow for the other tricks (and this one as he got so close)
Dave said,
October 3, 2009 @ 12:29 pm
Good point Rod. I was a little disillusioned about Derren getting it wrong so this is a much more pleasing theory.
I did find it a bit weird though, that he took £5k out of the man’s bank account, and bet 5000 in casino chips in a casino in mainland europe. Presumably in a country that does not trade in sterling. So I thought it a bit weird that he bet 5K exactly.
progambler said,
October 3, 2009 @ 1:20 pm
You guys are so gullable. It’s really very simple. Just because Derren says its in a casino you believe him?? Idiots!
It was a set. So no real money was staked. He HAD to lose or else he wuld owe the guy 175K.
So he gives him his 5K back after the show (rememebr it wasn’t a real casino)
Simple and free!!
skeenage said,
October 3, 2009 @ 1:29 pm
With all the technology out there you think he would have bought a better camera..
when i first saw it i immediately went EPIC FAIL..
but after reading the comments it seems more plausible if he actually ment to fail as it would show him to be just human and make his other events more believable.
jon said,
October 3, 2009 @ 2:02 pm
What NONSENSE from Keith Malecki-no one won the lottery that evening, Derren could have easily given his numbers to a friend to buy a ticket etc. and showed the numbers beforehand. In the casino he could have asked someone else to place the bet and if it had won then there would have been no quibble. I guess you have never been to a casino but people do win big and they do get paid! It’s only chavs that win lottery? Maybe they can tell us how to win.it
hannah said,
October 3, 2009 @ 2:23 pm
just a quick comment, do no one else notice when he said he was nearly at the casino and getting the guy to look at the screens he said, ” i can’t tell you where i am, IM ON THE TRUCK IN FRONT OF YOU”, obviously everyone assumed he meant, and on the table infront of you, but play it back he didnt. he also said it was a casino, didn’t say it was licenced or open to the public just a casino,
Ben said,
October 3, 2009 @ 2:26 pm
B******s. He did get it worng and it was halirious!!!!
For starters all you saying the casino would have taken this up legally if he got it right is rubbish. There is nothing illegal about doing math in your head. Thats what half of gambling is about. Waht you think poker is! Odds! This i agree is a lot harder and fair play to him, he was close but the only thing the casino could have got funny about is the camera! he would have done nothing wrong if he won!
I am glad he got it wrong. Cant stand the guy. He is very inteligent though.
Priceless shot at the end of the 2 guys holding the chq for £185000 just not knowing what to do. Ha ha ha ha.
At the end of the day, it made better telly at the fact he got it wrong, its prob done him a favour. This was not done on purpose but suppose everyone is entitled to thier opinions!
Rod said,
October 3, 2009 @ 2:30 pm
Thanks to all - some good points - here’s another one to consider:
Derren tells us so often it’s all about misdirection. Look at his polished tricks that leave you wondering “how on earth did he do that ?” Most of us see them as flawless.
Then sometimes, as with some of the things at the Casino, we see what we take to be flaws and slip ups . . .
I suspect whatever DB lets us see is what he wants us to see !
All the best
Rod Collins
Rod said,
October 3, 2009 @ 2:36 pm
Ben,>> comment just above my last one.
I wouldn’t exactly say if he had a system it would be illegal but there could certainly be problems.
Taking pictures or filming on private property for commercial use, as making a TV programme is, is subject to copyright and requires release forms etc.
You also make the point about using skill to win - I would agree with you there but for years people have been banned from casinos for card counting I believe - I think that’s wrong as it’s using skill to win but I believe it happens.
Cheers
Rod
Lewis said,
October 3, 2009 @ 3:15 pm
Im not so sure he got it wrong.So he bet on 8. Ball landed on 30.
Re watch the show, when tim westwood comes out, look what number hes wearing, of course its number 30.
When the guy whos getting his £5000 bet walks through the blue tarp, he goes past the first truck, look at the second truck, another big fat 30 on it.
Rod said,
October 3, 2009 @ 3:47 pm
Ah Lewis !
Now - this could be something - I wonder if there’s anything in it ?
Great comment - many thanks
I notice his own blog has a special banner and pic of him titled Oops !
mmmmm
All the best
Rod
Marie Palmer said,
October 3, 2009 @ 4:47 pm
I reckon he may have got it wrong on purpose, the reasoning for this is because everyone will be talking about it like we are for quite sometime. Derren Brown likes to keep people guessing and thats exactly what he has done, amazing!
Holly said,
October 3, 2009 @ 5:56 pm
I didn’t see Tim westwood wearing any number?
and that 30 on the van was so negligible i really doubt that was put there on purpose.
Reece said,
October 3, 2009 @ 6:01 pm
Very interesting theories. I think it was definitely a set up and a great end to the series. Now people are thinkin: “Derren is human, so maybe if he got this wrong - the other stunts were genuine.” The main is a genius!
I also noticed the first truck as well, thinking that was quite odd and the number 30 appearing everywhere!
Also - don’t u think that Ben guy looked like he was hypnotized throughout the whole thing? His eyes were all glazed and he never really shoed any emotion at any point. I think I had just a lost the chance of winning 180 grand, i’d be a bit annoyed…
Plus: In another country, wouldn’t it say the word “EVEN” in another language on the roulette board?
Even more: Why didn’t they show Ben in the bank when he was “withdrawing his 5,000 pounds” without a passport or ID on him… Strange? Still though - Derren is a genius, can’t wait 4 more.
Ben said,
October 3, 2009 @ 7:37 pm
heres a new theory: it wasn’t live becaue it was in a fake casino BECAUSE Derren said the camera he was going to “smuggle in” was very high-tech and will sneak by the security, well surely a camera so good would have better quality than the camera we saw?
KL said,
October 3, 2009 @ 8:10 pm
JD you said:
“Derren went in with “£5000″, the staff changed it into Euros. Now, whilst this could mean he was in another EU country - I think it was more likley a slip-up from the actor playing the roulette operator, who was obviously not english, but who was trained.”
I don’t really think this is a valid point at all.
Let’s assume for argument’s sake thar Derren did acually go to a European Casino, Ch4 and Derren Brown would have obtained 5,000 Euros quite easily BEFORE they went into the Casino.
Just because the participent withdrew £5,000 from his bank doesn’t mean that CH4 or Brown physically took the very same £5000 cash with them to Europe!
KL said,
October 3, 2009 @ 8:17 pm
Ben “high tech” doesn’t necessarily mean high quality!
My 20+ year old 35 mm SLR camera takes much better quality pictures than my “high tech” digital camera.
Simarly Good old Cathode Ray Tube tvs actually produce significantly better quality tv images than today’s LCD Tvs when it comes to standard definition pictures.
Will said,
October 3, 2009 @ 8:35 pm
Yeah interesting theories,but if he did do it on purpose, what was the reason for it?? was this the last episode of the series, and do you think there’ll be something else that he does that reveals something to do with what happened.
Brian said,
October 3, 2009 @ 9:56 pm
Apart from all this clever stuff with the casino, (which I don’t believe was real) , what about the principles in showing the public that it’s OK to Hypnotise someone and take their money off of them?!
What would have happened if the member of the public said he didn’t want his £5,000 to be used as a bet?
Darren would have had a problem then, but I guess he knew the guy would go along with it because he had already conditioned him.
Faisal Rahman said,
October 3, 2009 @ 9:57 pm
At the beginning of every show he says he uses ‘miss direction and showman ship’ he says a bit more which covers him from being called a fraud or liar. I would worry if I was his wife or girlfriend or bank manager, he might have done what he done to me to that man he stole £5000 from.
phil b said,
October 3, 2009 @ 10:46 pm
Another thing that suggests fakery or a deliberate fail is the fact that there was not enough time at the
end of the show for a proper reaction to a win. Every other element of the show timed out perfectly, in tv land it
has to be. So if he had won then there would not have been enough time to milk a reaction from derren
or the guy that just won the money. And lets face it in tv land you gotta milk a chance like that.
So no time allotted means it was never a possibility.
Liz said,
October 3, 2009 @ 11:01 pm
I was a croupier for 15 years and when I dealt roulette there was no rule that bets could not be placed after the ball was rolling and I’m pretty sure that’s still the case! Also, if the casino was in mainland Europe the croupier would not have been speaking English, I know this because I’ve dealt abroad too. I was hopeless at adding up and spent years trying to spin numbers that were unpopular or had few bets on before I spun the ball with very limited success. It’s not illegal to use systems to try to beat casinos- I’ve seen people barred for counting cards but never prosecuted!
I’d love to know wheter the patsy who forked out the 5k would have a legal case against Derren Brown (if that bit at least was genuine). I know if someone hypnotised me out of 5k and then publicised the fact I’d be trying to get more than my money back through legal means.
Just a fan said,
October 3, 2009 @ 11:46 pm
Ball landed on the space next to 30
Ben was sent to the truck next to truck 30.
Coincidence? Doubtful.
But why not make it more obvious in the show?
Rhodri Smith said,
October 3, 2009 @ 11:50 pm
I didnt think for one second that this trick or any other was real. He obviously got it wrong on purpose to fool the audience into thinking that there is a degree of truth in his tricks - Not so. Apparently they dont allow electronic equipment into Casino’s - so how was someone with a camera filming the roulette wheel aloud in, and how did he have a hidden camera - The guy is an ILLUSIONIST much like david blaine, but he’s trying to create the illusion that he can read minds and predict the future. It is not plausible that he can predict his entire show before it has occured - which he always reveals he has done at the end of most of his shows. Well I predict that most people on his show are plants. People are getting bogged down by how he did this or how he did that - it’s always easily explained. The lottery trick was a joke. If his predicted numbers infront of his small group of people were the winners - why didnt he show them a few minutes before the draw. I gaurantee that the whole lottery show was edited and it took numerous takes for them to achieve four numbers, and that was the only take he put out onto live TV. (split screen most definately) Anyone who believes that this guy holds mysterious powers is a joke - he’s a magician, an illusionist, an entertainer - - - these titles alone state that he only ever performs tricks.
Ed said,
October 4, 2009 @ 2:51 am
Hi, yes I agree it seems it was intended to fail.
As already stated, the no. 30 was on the side of the first truck; the 2nd had a code instead that was in a different place (WT4 or something on the trailer and not the front cabin).
I also don’t believe that was a real casino - been to a few and that looked more like the ‘just for fun’ casinos we have at my work Xmas party! And yes, I doubt they could sneak so many cameras into a real casino.
Thirdly, i’ll add something I don’t think anyone on this page has already mentioned: Ben was apparently watching the show, but didn’t seem to notice he was on it until Derren asked him the 2nd time…!
V.clever - the guy is great at making us think! =D
Ciao, Ed
Craig said,
October 4, 2009 @ 9:29 am
I can’t figure out why no one is talking about the fact that you are not actually allowed to film in a casino. Apart from the camera up his sleeve there was another on the balcony that was filming from higher up. If he had succeeded in winning the £175,000 I think that the casino would have had something to say about it. Many good casinos will search people if they suspect cheating, so he is lucky that he didn’t win. Casinos have even been known to teach people that film their tables a physical lesson if you know What I mean. Also, he stated that he was somewhere in Europe, yet the chips he exchanged were valued in Pounds. If he was outside of the Uk, they would have been valued in Euros?
Jenny said,
October 4, 2009 @ 11:15 am
I agree that this was probably the outcome he wanted. There was a number 30 on the side of the lorry that the guy was sitting in…….coinsidence? I don’t think so.
Jenny said,
October 4, 2009 @ 11:17 am
Also, I hate to break it to folk, but the UK is in Europe! He could have been in the UK and therefore he could get £’s no problem. On the map of ’somewhere in europe’, the UK is clearly visible!!!
Hannah said,
October 4, 2009 @ 11:52 am
Hi.
Completely agree with Craig. They would of suspected something if he had won x
amy :) said,
October 4, 2009 @ 2:06 pm
i love derren brown and I think that that was the reesult he was going for. I had this feeling the whole way through that it seemed planned almost and I was thinking that it was quite weird. He is very clever as he knew to think abut the things that would happen if he did win, and so he got as close as possible to winning which is the nearest number. I dont know how he does it, whether its actually how he says he does it or something else but its entertaining either way
Mark said,
October 4, 2009 @ 3:49 pm
He did it on purpose? Obviously you know nothing about TV production or the legal ramifications involved in a programme intentionally mis-leading audiences. There was clearly no exit strategy in place which shows only one thing - arrogance. You are all giving over the top explanations which are nothing but convoluted and show an ignorance of how the industry works and the safeguards in place. Occam’s razor, anyone? The simplest answer is the right one, he got it wrong because he got it wrong. Admit it, he is not infallable. I’ve been a fan of his for years but this new series has seen him use age old hackeneyed tricks. The psychic spy one was a carbon copy of a ten year old Uri Gellar trick. Who rips off Uri Gellar ten years ago, for God’s sake.
A perfect end to a disappointing series and a display of how arrogance and presumption leads to a fall.
Chris said,
October 4, 2009 @ 5:03 pm
I think it is a very good point but did you notice that at the end as the camera was going backwards…One of the people had a massive great big check….why would he have that if he MEANT to get it wrong???? I dunno wat to think….i fink hes brilliant but i didnt get stuck to my sofa i didnt guess the painting… I dunno…. i dont think hes a fake but….yh
Little Brother said,
October 4, 2009 @ 5:24 pm
Rod,
Seems to have worked for someone I know
LB
Dave said,
October 4, 2009 @ 5:46 pm
Derrwn Brown stated that he cold not see the guy that gave him the 5 grand But check this out When the guy got near to the back of the second truck Derren said THERE YOU GO Thr quickly sais ARE YOU THERE YET That means he could see the guy on video link
Rod said,
October 4, 2009 @ 6:37 pm
LB,
indeed
Rod
Skalor said,
October 4, 2009 @ 8:00 pm
Want an explanation? Here it is:
Derren explains before The Events, that they are all about misdirection. It’s pretty certain Derren has lied to us throughout each show, one example from the first show ‘I’m legally not allowed to reveal the lottery before the BBC’ when in reality there is nothing to stop anyone revealing a prediction.
With the Casino episode. We are told the feed with the European casino is live, Derren bets on 8. The ball lands next to ‘8′ on the number ‘30′. He fails. Or does he? If you watch the episode again, skip to where Ben first walks past the trucks after leaving his house, at 25mins 38secs on 4OD, on the side of the first truck is the number ‘30′ printed large in red. So probably in reality, the footage of the bet in the casino was recorded (would have taken several recordings to get it so he was one number out), all he then had to do was place the ‘30′ on the truck and tell the audience the casino footage was live.
Are people gullible enough to believe - someone can work out how to win almost everytime on a Roulette, or that it is possible to predict the lottery? Yes some are, also many people want to believe that badly they just accept it and look no further. They feel this way purely because of the misdirection, a theme which has run through each event. Derren really wants you to realise how easily you can be misdirected, hoping from now on you will question life a lot more. Questioning what an advertisement tells you, a company, your government and your media. Above all, use your mind to it’s full potential
Bob said,
October 4, 2009 @ 9:08 pm
I don’t care if he is a scammer, illusionist or does it for real, he works hard and does his research, some how he manages to possess us all.
jake overton said,
October 4, 2009 @ 9:22 pm
legal reasons, he did not use and electrical equipment and, pressuming the casino was not in the UK (banned from all UK casinos) would therefore be legal. However if the casino was fake ( english roulette wheel but euros used?) then this would give Derren an extra incentive to purposely loose. Loosing 5grand isnt much in TV terms, but if the casino was fake he would have to give away 175grand of his money. This coupled with suggesting he is truthful and thus all over stunts werent fixed would be a rather large and good reason for Derren to purposely loose this one. Im a huge fan of Derren’s and could just be looking for excuses at him loosing but thought id share some possibilities on this topic.
Dan said,
October 4, 2009 @ 11:32 pm
if you watch the end of the show carefully you’ll notice Derren standings to the left of the truck in a hat holding a cheque for £175,000, the two round things lodged in your face are called eyes use them they are important and useful.
Luke said,
October 5, 2009 @ 4:25 am
With so many thinking that he failed I would suggest that it was a success. All the reasons given for why he failed, like the big cheque, would have been very deliberately engineered by Derren for you to see what he wanted you to see. I’m waiting for what happens next.
Take thge spray cans at the start. He made us think that all but one would not work. And this was the case except for the one we didn’t expect. The one that spayed the girl in the face with water. We didn’t expect that as we were led to think that it would not work.
We were all just “sprayed in the face by water.” Now, just as he did with the spray can trick he will explain how he knew this was going to happen.
I think, anyways…….
lee morris said,
October 5, 2009 @ 8:58 am
the chances of calculating which number is going to come up on the wheel are just about impossible to predict,otherwise we would all be doing it!!
derren predicted the number directly next to the actual winning number,i dont see how this is a failiure,its still an impossibly close prediction,like guessing all the lottery numbers,but being off by one.would that be a rubbish prediction,or an amazingly close one?
the ramifications of actualy winning,would have been far to complicated.
i feel the most likely explanation is that the casino footage was filmed prior to the broadcast,and derren named the number 8 for the purpose of lending some credibility to the tecniques he was using for his other effects!
and yet again,the nation,like or loath him,are talking about it!!
Doyle_45 said,
October 5, 2009 @ 9:16 am
There were numerous issues with this episode.
1. Why did they not just leave Ben in front of his television watching the show and film his reaction from the room?
2. Why did they have two large trucks for a very simple outside broadcast?
3. A giant cheque, really?
4. The casino looked very fake!
I know that some previous posters have said that bets are not allowed once the ball is in play, but in every casino I have ever been into, you can continue to bet until the croupier says “no more bets”.
Also, some people are saying that the UK is part of mainland europe, sorry but it isn’t. Mainland Europe excludes all islands i.e. UK, Ireland, Greenland, Iceland etc. Euros would therefore be expected, further proof that DB was trying to convince us that it was a real casino.
One thing that I haven’t seen anyone mention regarding the Lottery show is following fact.
The place where he did the reveal was a set with plenty of space for fixed cameras so why did it have to be shot with a shaky hand held camera when the footage in the coffee shop which would have been a much tighter squeeze for tv equipment was shot cleanly. The answer is that the artificial camera shake leads people away from thinking it is a split screen initially.
I enjoyed the lottery episode but quite frankly the rest have been pants….
Karmakaze said,
October 5, 2009 @ 10:08 am
I just have to comment about a few of the other comments. First people talking about the camera quality being bad are actually mistaken. That wasn’t bad quality camera, that was bad quality radio connection. Of course a casino full of electronics like a slot machine would have horrible reception for a hidden camera broadcasting live to an outside broadcast van - especially if the casino were not in on it.
As for why not revealing the identity of the casino… thats simple: because the casino were not asked for permission. For the sake of argument, if the casino was aware in advance, they may have been reluctant to pay out. Remember, despite what some other commentors are saying, it is NOT illegal to mentally count cards etc. It is ONLY illegal if you use artificial devices to do it. So if Brown had won the money without the use of an electronic counting device, then he coiuld legitimately give that money to Ben and the casino would have no legal recourse. They took the bet, they have to pay out.
This is not to say I don’t think there was a trick in it. I am just saying that the “problems” many people see are NOT actually problems if Brown really did it the way he claims.
As for Mark he hasn’t got a clue. He thinks misleading the audience is somehow illegal or highly frowned upon in the entertainment industry? Hell there are no legal ramifications if the NEWS lies to us, why would a MAGICIAN get into trouble for it? Hell thats his whole thing! Unless Mark believes in MAGIC that is!
The fact is the show is totally about misdirection and mental manipulation. And most of it is not even that unusual.
Take the spray can “trick”. Watch it again and see how he tells her exactly which one to pick up every time. First he makes sure to pick the person that was standing immediately to the left of the stage, then brings her up to that side. He had to chose someone on that side because we would have noticed if he guided someone from stage right to the other side.
He then uses verbal misdirection to tell everyone he is not influenceng her and to prime them to concentrate on the wrong things, then says pick up the first one. And guess what she does? Picks up the one closest to her. Then he uses misdirection again to take her mind off it and then says pick up the next one. And she does. The very next one in front of her. Finally he says ok, pick up the last one. and once again she does - the one furthest from her. Listen closely and you can hear him emphasise “first”, “next”, and “last” each time he is telling her to select a can. The rest of it is just so that she, and the audience, don’t pick up on it, because they are thinking about him getting sprayed, or some random audience member getting sprayed and so on.
It’s not rocket science. I do stuff like this to people all the time. For example I own an internet cafe and when people come in, I say “have a seat wherever you want” but point at a specific chair. Maybe 7 times out of 10 the person will sit in that chair. No matter if its the closest or furthest away. Its simple psychology. They are primed to go where I tell them, and will do it, even if I tell them they have the choice.
How do I think he did this trick? He wasn’t ever going to show him getting it right, but he also made sure to show us he did in fact get it right with all the appearences of the correct number. That however also shows that he did not figure it out on the spot, but knew well in advance, hence it couldn’t have been an actual mental skill. That leaves the whole thing was in fact faked - just like any other “magic” trick.
Karmakaze said,
October 5, 2009 @ 10:15 am
One last thing… the real trick was not the bet. The real trick was how he got the money in the first place. Taken at face value, Brown was able to walk up to someone on the street that he had never met before and instantly hypnotise him, convince him to give him 5K and then not only forget all about it, but not even notice, and in fact deny it had even happened. Just like the time he handed blank pieces of paper over as if it was money to shopkeepers, or a losing ticket to a bookie and convince them it was a winner - that is Brown’s REAL skill and it is awesome.
Assuming that part of this “event” wasn’t fake, THAT is far more impressive than guessing a roulette number, if you ask me!
Karmakaze said,
October 5, 2009 @ 10:30 am
I just saw Lee Morris’ comment, and I have to point out he is utterly wrong. Not only is it possible it has been done and been made illegal because of it. The thing you have to remember is the ball and whell etc are regulated. They have to have specific properties, just like the lotto balls. In the case of roulette though the possible motion is far more constrained, and it is actually possible to reduce the odds so low that you can make a killing. You DO lose sometimes, but nowhere near as much as random chance, and thus you can profit easily.
What MAY be “impossible” is doing it mentally. However, there are people that can do mental maths feats like that (like savants), and consider this part - the squash court thing wasn’t just a demo, it actually showed you how it COULD be done - we predict trajectories every time we play a game like tennis or squash or catch anything - and it involves highly complex maths that we do without even thinking. The very first computer was used to predict ballistic trajectories for artillery… yet we can throw a ball into a hoop from a distance rather easily without even thinking about it - which is the same thing: predicting a ballistic trajectory and adjusting the launch parameters to suit the desired path.
It is entirely possible that someone who studied roulette for years could learn to get a “feel” for where the ball will end up based on its initial motion and the motion of the wheel, just like Tiger Woods can get a feel for hitting a ball a hundred yards into a hole not much bigger than it.
Paul Daniels said,
October 5, 2009 @ 12:09 pm
I liked it a lot.
Craig Jones said,
October 5, 2009 @ 2:47 pm
Actually Karmakaze, you are wrong, not Lee Morris. Of course you cannot reduce the odds based upon the wheel and ball notion. The squash court trick? note the word TRICK. It didn’t involve complex mathematics at all.
I am a big fan of Mr Brown but this series has been extremely dissapointing… basically reworking tricks he has already performed, but then spreeeeeading them out over a longer period of time and filling the gaps with nonsense that a three year old could write. In fact, all of the shows have given the impression they were knocked together at short notice. Very poor, and nowhere the standards he has set with previous shows.
Jason said,
October 5, 2009 @ 3:34 pm
It stated early on in the show that casinos have equipment to detect electronic devices - surely then he would not be able to smuggle a real minature camera in?
Ant said,
October 5, 2009 @ 6:13 pm
On that last point about the the digital camera. I think Derren made it pretty obvious that the casino (likely not the people on the floor) were in on this. He stated they are not “allowed” to show the casinos name, I think that was probably a condition of an agreed stunt. My guess is that he did actually get pretty damn good at guessing where balls may land (he did claim to have spent a year with it always on his mind). I wouldnt say it’s impossibly to judge something like this. People do it all the time in sports (though to some lesser degree). I like to think that actually he did fully expect to win the money and that the casino were aware that he was performing some “stunt” and were probably paid a reasonable sum for him to take that risk (so let’s say the casino was paid 15k-60k or some reasonable figure for what we saw as only a 5k bet.. a better deal for them).
Ian said,
October 5, 2009 @ 8:44 pm
Well, it made for interesting conversation over breakfast this morning. Obviously a scam and a disappointing one too. How laim for Derren to claim he can ‘calculate’ the speed of cars on a motorway - I’ll give it a try…
Pick a motorway (one that hasn’t got a permenant traffic jam) go to section with a 50 mph speed limit and stand on a bridge with a policeman with a speed camera. Shock horror! Everyone seems to be driving at 49mph!!
Also, I couldn’t tell you what car it was with my back to it but once it’s gone under the bridge and it’s driving away from me I reckon I could tell you what make and model it is.
Mark H said,
October 5, 2009 @ 9:27 pm
I’ve been reading all the comments with interest and agree that it was all a fake. However, I prepose a little experiment for anyone brave enough!?
Derren first tried to phone Ben (he says) on his mobile. That didn’t work so he re-tried his ‘landline’ number. We heard the dial-tones play through the TV then it rang and Ben answered the phone. If this number was real, it may be possible to replay the part where you hear the dial tones through the mouth piece of your telephone by holding it near the tv speaker- those tone sounds should actually ‘dial’ Ben’s number (assuming the whole number was heard).
Someone here could then ask ‘Ben’ if it was all genuine. My guess is that this won’t be a genuine phone number at all though!
Just a thought. Anyone want to try?
joeward said,
October 5, 2009 @ 10:35 pm
If he was in europe, because of the exchange rate, he would not have been putting on £5000 when he asked for 5000chips would he?
Frank Buzzage said,
October 5, 2009 @ 11:05 pm
Quote from Derren Brown in the program (said quite quickly I might add): “Remember, EVERYTHING you see in tonights program is pre-recorded”
I only noticed this on watching it a second time, also everything else everyone has said also makes sense, the big cheque at the end is silly, I can’t ever see a program like this using such a daft gimic, the fact that the producer or whoever he was was quite clearly “introduced” early in the program so that you wouldn’t wonder who the hell he was when he appeared at the end saying they’d get his monkey back is suspect.
Also, after watching it twice I would expect a follow up show very soon showing exactly what he was really up to (I think this was part of a much bigger “trick”), notice when Derren is supposedly on his way to the casino (why wouldn’t he just already be outside and there ready? None of the other shows have been so unorganised) it sounds very much like he could be doing something else at the same time (for a follow up show maybe), he’s constantly doing that kind of thing in his live shows (monkey suit anyone?)
Anyway, after all that I think it’s good entertainment and if I’m right look forward to a follow up show which I’m sure will baffle everyone just as much.
Damonh said,
October 6, 2009 @ 1:05 pm
did anyone notice that just before the live feed to the casino, derren says he has just been informed that they are ready to go live? how can this be? it was a recording! he should have said that NOW I WILL BE LIVE. although he did say about his future self, he couldnt have possibly JUST been informed he was ready. and when it did go live he WASNT ready. also, Derren is a great illusionist. that means he is able to LIE very convincingly. it was a great show, but it was a trick. The whole thing was a trick. everything he does IS A TRICK. although he is very very good. ITS STILL A TRICK!
john_674 said,
October 6, 2009 @ 1:24 pm
I was watching the programme thinking that there would be more credibility to his “trick” if he was one or two out on the roulette wheel, therefore it didn’t come as a great surprise when he missed out. Of course this was a set up. Maybe he would have had more success if he had got 25 people to pick a number between 1 and 36, average it out and put the 5k on that instead!!!!
The man is an illusionist! there is a clue right there! It amazes me that people believe his stunts to be genuine.
PG said,
October 6, 2009 @ 3:36 pm
Not sure what the big deal is. As soon as the ball was released I said “30″ to the wife.
It’s simple laws of physics. Yada yada yada x x x
frank cole said,
October 6, 2009 @ 8:35 pm
Derren Brown is a trickster & illusionist and a very good one!
of course all the postings saying it was a set and not a real casino are right this is why….
£5000 on a single number is MILES over the max bet believe me i know…also….
if he had one the casino wouldve refused to pay out 4 reason above plus cameras are not permitted plus he wouldve owed the guy £180,000 OUT OF HIS OWN MONEY!
Also you dont just walk into ure bank and emerge a couple of mins later with 5000 smackers you would have to have arranged that by prior notice which cant have happened as the guy was only hypnotised there and then
END OF…………
katy m said,
October 6, 2009 @ 10:03 pm
here’s my theory. Its all sleight of hand.
Hypnotised Ben. Was it him or a lookalike?. He only remembered going out that day not where or when or I went to such and such place? And as someone noticed above the place it occurred was deserted. Second point was that Derren had the money all along and just brought it out in an envelope, again a simple slight of hand trick.
The casino again was misdirection and sleight of hand. If you use some of the links from the DB website you will learn all about putting the bet down afterwards (takes milliseconds but some can do it) shifting the bet onto a neighbouring number or swapping the chips for other denominations.
In this case, DB buys the chips, and has the same number of chips in one euros or whatever ie now has tacks of 5,000 and 10. When he placed the bet he told the croupier “number 8″, and then put the chips on the border of 8 and another number. The croupier shifted them back on 8. If he was guessing trajectory he betted too soon. He was betting too soon to assure the croupier that all was well. He either didn’t get a chance of shifting them onto 30 or another number, wasn’t bothered, or swapped high denominations for low so only lost 10 euros or whatever.
Holden said,
October 7, 2009 @ 1:03 am
Ye I felt a bit cheated after it ended so instant,but then started thinking if I guessed the number correctly then no one have believed me,so I think what he did was pretty clever.anyway what a wicked series of events.clever man!
chris said,
October 7, 2009 @ 1:40 pm
It was obviously faked, everything, the whole show. You cant do the math in your head fast enough to be able to do that, he would have to be the most gifted mathemtician on the planet and train for years for it to even be considered a possibility, and if he was that guy he would have better things to do.
Here’s why it was fake:
1. Why was the casino almost empty and why was there seemingly only one table?
2. How did they manage to get TWO camera’s into a casino after the gambling expert said they can detect any electronic equipement? The premise of the show was that you couldnt use a computer because they would catch you yet Derren could sneek two cameras that were transmitting video in without anyone noticing? Come on!!
3. What was in the first van outside ben’s house? answer.. the fake casino.
4. It was very convenient that it was one off, made it seem very plausible, until you realise thats what Derren was going for.
5. Ben was a complete tool so I’m not surprised he had a stupid expression on his face the whole time, the show would have been painful if that cretin had been given free money. More proof it went as planned.
6. Interference from Derrens camera only happened when the important bits were happening.
7. Most important part of all, Derren said the show was made of disception, tricks and showmanship… NOT of amazing math and physics skillz. It was a trick, and idiots that think its real are sad people that should probably go to church or summin.
Alan said,
October 7, 2009 @ 2:38 pm
I think you are probably right, he failed on purpose , we shall have to keep watchin for that number i guess.
Here is what i concluded.
first off like most of Derren’s tricks the method he says he uses isnt actually the method at all! it just makes us think its more impressive! i dont think he guaged the speed of the ball! although he did suggest he has trained to do this ( a car and a ball mmm i think i would rather have a stab at guessing a cars speed!) and the tragecory thing , well he showed us all how he managed to correctly judge the tragectory of a bouncy ball on a squash court, or was that just a trick ? and another example of how he can judge tragectory? why didnt he do it more than once? or does the squash ball land on 37 most of the time?
ok so if he cant judge speed or tragectory how would he have done it.
well the first clue is the rubbish filming of the casino…. it wasnt a casino it most probably was his house! you see a guy in america once sat in a casino for a year just noting down numbers on the wheel. after a year he figured that after about four years a wheel wiull start to wear a certain way, and one number will be much much more likey to come up for him that number was 4 and he won a couple of million pounds befor being banned! so Derren has a wheel in his house he spins it as much as he can in a year and notes the number down ,,,,, so he has a likely number already known to him. rubbish show eh? but then the holy grail of the casino wheel method and his speed tragectory method would make the show a bit better . so did he get it wrong?
could be i mean could he spin the wheel as much as it would normaly spin in a four year period ? maybe not so his judgement would be out a bit! so possibly he got it wrong. but then again he might have got it right and just told us he got it wrong if you know what i mean?
well thats how i would have done it!
Walter said,
October 7, 2009 @ 2:51 pm
Is that Derren himself holding the giant cheque of 180,000 pounds next to the truck?
I think it is..
hamish_sw said,
October 7, 2009 @ 2:53 pm
It was a very good show and did exactly what Derren wanted it to do - get people talking about selected elements that he wants us to focus on as part of a larger trick.
I’ve got a few things I’d like to raise:
1) ‘Ben’ is an actor. I’ve seen him in an episode of Casualty (or it could have been Holby City, one of those Bristol medical dramas). Don’t think they’d be that daft? Remember the whole ‘Space Camp’ tv show farce where they pretended to send muppets into space with the Russians? Well they used a TV Commercial actor in that as well, sometimes they just make mistakes.
2) Roulette wheels are weighted and regulated to control the speed of the wheel so that nobody can manipulate the spin. The balls are also a uniform weight to reduce variables or assist with favoured throws. Derren claiming to be able to predict where the ball would land if he could figure out the speed of the wheel is pure nonsense as the spin of the wheel will be at a constant speed with a uniform deceleration.
3) The table played was not a casino regulation table. In addition to this I have never, ever seen a table taking bets of that amount shut in such a strange room. Notice that there was absolutely nothing aside from the table and blurry / noisy shots of a dealer to indicate it was indeed a casino?
4) No casino will allow filming of the type they claimed to be doing. Are we supposed to accept that somehow they managed to sneak a cameraman into the roof space / balcony and purely by chance there was a clear spot for him to get a good shot of Derren at the table? Quite aside from this I’ve been in my share of casinos and if they’re accepting bets of £5k on a single number you can guarantee they have electronic suppression equipment installed.
5) Blindingly obvious and touched on by a few people: Derren claims to be going to a Casino “Somewhere in Mainland Europe” - the use of the word ‘Mainland’ rules out the possibility of it being in the UK which means he’d have been dealing in Euros, not Sterling. Yet, at the table he can be clearly heard asking for “ten 500’s please” - exactly 5000 - which is the number we’re expecting to hear, preventing any momentary pauses in our acceptance that everything we see and hear is real.
6) A consistent element of Derrens shows is preparing us for a larger element later on. This can be through the use of subconscious influence, subliminal messages flashed on a screen or even words glaringly out or place in a sentance (”Mary had a little helium lamb”, for instance - not that he said such a thing but you get the idea). Each show in the ‘Events’ series has been introducing an element, and getting people to discuss that element extensively (just as we are here) therefore spreading awareness of the element he wants people to be focused on.
I wouldn’t be surprised to find that in a couple of weeks or so Derren will pop up and announce the startling fact that people have picked lotto numbers he’s influenced them to pick (or some such) - we’ve all been part of his largest mind control stunt to date.
Regardless of all of these points I still found it enjoyable enough to watch. He’s a very talented showman and I’m keen to see his big reveal where everything will become clear.
Rod said,
October 7, 2009 @ 3:48 pm
Hamish,
great comment - many thanks. I too think there’s more to come.
As to ‘Ben’ my concern about him at the time was as mentioned he had to be researched etc.
Derren admits not everybody can be ‘bent to his will’ there was also the business of the cash etc.
Another point would be the risk of the last part of the show which was supposedly live.
The risk was too great - what if Ben had gone out for the night, what if he was in the bath etc, what if what if . . .
There are too many things that could have gone wrong were everything as it appeared.
All the best
Rod Collins
james h said,
October 7, 2009 @ 6:02 pm
if it was real, how did he even get the camera from his sleeve into the casino, because if you win and they find a massive camera in your sleeve. . . .
Niall said,
October 8, 2009 @ 1:46 pm
I think he would have got even more credibility if he landed within 2 numbers of the winning number. Landing within one number was just greedy
Paul Budding said,
October 8, 2009 @ 4:06 pm
Derren Brown doesnt need to lie. He’s not dealing with the supernatural. And he ADMITS that he messes up. Even on his less impressive acts such as where he gets people to hand over their wallet in the street he admits that he only has a 66% success rate. When he succeeds it is because he has distracted them. On the roulette wheel he uses physics and a very sharp eye but its not supernatural. HES BEEN BANNED FROM CASINO’S DUE TO SUCCESS. THATS WHY HE WENT INTO TV. So he simply used the same methods on TV as he if he had no camera’s following him. The thing about Brown is that he reveals all, in serious interviews such as those he has done with Dawkins.
ben harding said,
October 8, 2009 @ 9:18 pm
the guys a con artist and a poor one at that, cant believe people are entertianed by him. Just watch the far left ball durung his “lottery prediction” what a massive mistake that was, and the printer up the arm trick during an evening of wonders, are you guys blind?
As for the roulette table, since when do they spin the wheel every 30 seconds, even when theres 1 person playing theres at least a 90 second delay due to licensing laws.
silly errors from a silly man
Andy Short said,
October 10, 2009 @ 10:12 am
Missed the show but enjoyed Derrens rant on YouTube!
How’s it done - simples!
Ok, drop back several months, take out the croupier and replace them with a computer aided machine. The machine activates the wheel, spins it a predertimed speed and releases the ball at an exact time and location on the wheel. ‘What about the bumps and jumps I hear you say! Forget it! Lets say the computer aided machine carries out this action ten thousand times using exactly the same parameters each time. The laws of physics would determine that ONE number would much more successful than the others. This is because the starting parameters are constant and therefore the variations of the end result would be small. What we are looking to do is find the number that is most constantly landed on based on these starting parameters and then simply tell everyone that’s the one we are predicting!
Program the croupier to carry out those exact parameters and hey-presto chances are on your side of getting the number! Lets face it if anyone could make someone carry out specific actions it’s Derren.
Derren would have known that the result could not be definitate but the odds would have been very high in his favour to have attempted it. Knowing that the second most likely place the ball would fall would be in the immediate proximity of the number (based on the testing of the parameters) would have led him to feel confident that the ‘trick’ was worth airing. Just as a wild guess imagine the test results showed that 40% of the time the ball landed on number 8 and 50% of the time the ball landed on the numbers next door. If Derren considered that his ‘trick’ had a 90% chance of giving him a successful show I am sure he would have gone with it. It was a four horse race, he covered the three favourites and banked on the mangy old 10/1 horse not beating the favourites.
The real ‘magic’ here was Derrens ability to make the croupier act exactly as required. He had already done the rest of the homework.
Garreth Hawkins said,
October 10, 2009 @ 2:15 pm
I have always been a huge fan of Derren Brown, and this hasn’t changed my opinion of him at all. There are a few things in the show, however, which makes you think twice about everything.
Firstly, the van that “Ben” was sent to, had the number 30 written on the side, may just be a coincidence, but its still there.
And secondly, he said he was betting £5k… then he says he is in mainland Europe, yet still bets 5000 of whatever thei currency is… the exchange rate to any other European currency is not 1:1… so whatever he bet 5000 of wasn’t pounds, so he didn’t bet £5k.
KEITH WARNER said,
October 10, 2009 @ 10:27 pm
Why has no one asked what was in the first truck that the member of the public had to pass to get to the back of the second truck. A Big enough truck for a set?
paul said,
October 11, 2009 @ 5:05 am
everything written seems plausable enough, except i just gotta say that you CAN take out whatever amount you want from your bank account-(as long as its in there!!) and there are no special conditions eg. 30 day notice acct. If it is a current acount then ID and a phone check to your branch is all that is required. I have personally taken out far more unannounced at my bank-only takes 10 mins.
codifier said,
October 11, 2009 @ 1:51 pm
Some very good analysis here.
@hamish_sw - I would love to be able to see a big “reveal” but am gradually losing hope!
I have one other point about the cameraman filming from above, I’m not sure if it’s already been covered.
HOW when you are trying to use a concealed camera, do you manage to zoom in on and follow a small moving object some distance away? The camera actually zooms in and tracks the rotation of the roulette wheel to give you a clear view of the ball sitting in number 30.
You would need to be looking through a viewfinder to track a moving object at a distance and someone who’s peering into a viewfinder is not doing a particularly good job of concealing the fact that they’re filming!
I suppose this is irrelevant given that the casino footage has already been well debunked, but I thought it was an interesting oversight on their part.
Jason said,
October 11, 2009 @ 2:31 pm
He failed becase he is rubbish.
I can also “not” predict where a roulette ball will land, but don’t get paid huge amounts to have
my own TV show.
Whats hs next trick, guessing Crystal Palace will win the premiership?
Ross said,
October 12, 2009 @ 8:51 am
Being open to the idea that you could predict that with mental capacity, i thought nothing of derren failing. In fact i’m kinda glad he did as he always gets things right that seem rigged and it this is such a huge thing to pass of as genuine that his reputation may have been affected. However, as some people think that he failed on purpose for this reason, i ask the question….why couldn’t number 30 be rigged. purposefully rig the wrong number so it appears genuine that he is actually predicting speed and trajectory, but not the right number for fear of knowledge of rigging. So i genuinely believe that he did fail by accident.
If you could predict a roulette wheel, wouldn’t you reallllllly want to ******* show people that you can actually do it. Derren brown forever!
Ross said,
October 12, 2009 @ 8:53 am
oh and in response to Keith asking about why has nobody asked about the first truck?
Well Keith, probably because everybody already knows that it’s most likely a visual mixing truck. You know when you watch the show yeah? and the images change yeah? the camera cuts and stuff but its live yeah?
Well it is a persons responsibility to look at a series of screens in a quiet environment close by (say that first truck) where he/she can switch between cameras.
Adam said,
October 13, 2009 @ 12:52 am
Having actually been in the audeiance of The Events: which was filmed on a snowy day in January I can say that everyone in the audeiance had to sign an agreement not to say what happened in the shows to after they were broadcast in September. A lot of what happened in the filming in January never made it on air. We were there for 4 hours for 45 minutes of filming. So here are some answers:
IF YOU LOOK AT THE END OF THE HOW TO BEAT A CASINO SHOW AND JUST AFTER THE CREW MEMBER/PRODUCER HAS SAID WE WILL GIVE YOUR MONEY BACK, LOOK TO THE LEFT AS THE CAMERA PANS OUT. THE MAN HOLDING THE CHEQUE IS DERREN BROWN WEARING A BLACK HAT, TRAINERS AND BLACK TOP/TROUSERS. YOU HAVE TO BE QUICK AS THE PRODUCER MAKES 3 STEPS BACKWARDS AND BLOCKS THE VIEW OF DERREN. THE CASINO WAS FILMED SEVERAL MONTHS AGO IN FRANCE AT A REAL CASINO BUT WITH THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE CASINO SO THE CONVERT CAMERAS COULD GET IN. HENCE THE REASON WHY DERREN BETS £5000 AND THE CROUPER SPEAKS BOTH AND ENGLISH. IT WAS NEVER LIVE AT THE CASINO. DERREN WAS CALLING FROM A MOBILE DOWN THE ROAD TO THE PERSON HE STOLE 5K FROM AND THEN MADE IS WAY THE SIDE OF THE PRODUCTION TRUCK AT THE END OF THE SHOW.
Anon said,
October 13, 2009 @ 2:52 pm
Do you remember at the end as the excitement built for the actual wheel spin, the sense of
anticipation we all had? Knowing that he hit his 6 lottery numbers earlier we had no doubts at
all did we that he would hit his roulette number. Of course we all knew that when he did it
was all achieved by magic or some stunt, but we had no doubts he would hit.
And then he missed !
And it all went quiet. No on screen apology for the show, no explanation.
What Derren gave every UK viewer at that point was the every day experience of every mainstream
gambler in the country. That of the excitement of expectation and false hope, followed by the
sudden and brutal let down of losing it all.
Try to remember how you felt at that moment when it happened.
He played with your minds, he took you on the gambler’s journey to show you what really
happens. What always happens. Because he cares. Because although he understands the scams
and cons and the psychology that gambling works from, he wants people to stay away from it rather
than misuse that skill for his own ends.
Derren is a master of mind control, suggestion and psychological manipulation. Under the guise
of a “magic” type entertainment show, he single handedly told the nation to quit the National
Lottery and stay away from casinos and gambling.
Top man !
Anon said,
October 13, 2009 @ 2:52 pm
It’s interesting reading people’s analyses of Derren’s “Events”.
I believe personally that Derren has craftily and almost subliminally influenced a lot of people
across the nation but not in the way they think he had.
You must remember from the outset that Derren is fascinated by the old Victorian scam artists.
The charlatans, mediums, cold readers, healers and so on and of course he opposes those
scammers and has no qualms about exposing us to the truth.
What Derren has done with the Lottery Prediction and Casino Events is to very subtly convince
people that gambling in general is futile and that the “house” always wins either through natural
odds or by cheating. You may be sittting there now not realising this and thinking that actually
the Lottery Prediction was indeed some genuine magic trick designed to make you think he could do
it.
It wasn’t!
Think about what happened. You have an entire episode centred on the UK’s National Lottery
which you might think therefore is boosting it’s publicity and helping their takings. But when
you watch the programme back, the whole programme, you realise what is actually going on.
The actual prediction etc is totally irrelevant. He used the entire show as a platform. A stage
from which to shout to the nation that the National Lottery is a complete and utter scam, a
complete exercise in futility and something you can never be sure is above board.
Here are the “not really so hidden” messages that he cleverly sowed into everyone’s minds during
that show, Derren said all these things:
1. The chances of winning the jackpot are approx 1 in 14 million, i.e. utterly futile.
2. You are more likely to die in the week you buy your ticket than you are to win it!
3. You have no idea if they are cheating or not
4. The easiest way to cheat would be to use weighted balls which you wouldn’t be able to see
Derren was doing his best to appeal to a nation of “miracle hopers” to say basically, “give it
up, it’s never going to happen”.
I am sure that Derren hates the way the government preys on vulnerable and relatively poor people
giving them the false hope of a lottery win whilst relieveing them of many £££s each week.
Overall I am convinced this was the purpose of the show because the “prediction effect” was clearly
done using camera trickery which is obviously very “beneath” him in terms of style. For
something as big as the Events he would otherwise have done a more elaborate trick using
his usual blend of misdirection, psychology, suggestion, magic, showmanship and so on.
Let’s now move to the “How To Beat A Casino” and see how that backs up this ethos of Derren
fighting back against gambling.
Clearly Derren was nowhere near a European Casino. He was undoubtedly in the 2nd of the large
TV trucks throughout the whole thing. His entire purpose for this show was never to land
the correct number on the roulette wheel, otherwise he would of course have succeeded.
Just like the Lottery he only broadcasts the bits he wants to. If he wanted to succeed he would
have kept repeating the “trick” until he did and then broadcast that.
So, knowing that he intended to “miss” the number what was his purpose here?
I submit to you again that he was imploring each of you to stay away from gambling because of
the damage it does and the fact that you are likely to be scammed along the way.
Do you remember at the end as the excitement built for the actual wheel spin, the sense of
anticipation we all had? Knowing that he hit his 6 lottery numbers earlier we had no doubts at
all did we that he would hit his roulette number. Of course we all knew that when he did it
was all achieved by magic or some stunt, but we had no doubts he would hit.
And then he missed !
And it all went quiet. No on screen apology for the show, no explanation.
What Derren gave every UK viewer at that point was the every day experience of every mainstream
gambler in the country. That of the excitement of expectation and false hope, followed by the
sudden and brutal let down of losing it all.
Try to remember how you felt at that moment when it happened.
He played with your minds, he took you on the gambler’s journey to show you what really
happens. What always happens. Because he cares. Because although he understands the scams
and cons and the psychology that gambling works from, he wants people to stay away from it rather
than misuse that skill for his own ends.
Derren is a master of mind control, suggestion and psychological manipulation. Under the guise
of a “magic” type entertainment show, he single handedly told the nation to quit the National
Lottery and stay away from casinos and gambling.
Top man !
Lucy said,
October 14, 2009 @ 10:12 pm
I loved the show. The look on the guy’s face when Derren lost was priceless.
Rod said,
October 15, 2009 @ 8:25 am
Lucy,
I think everyone was stunned - simply because we all presumed he’d be able to do it - which was his point I think.
Look at all the things people have spotted and listed in comments -I don’t think anybody would have seen these things unless Derren actually wanted us to see them.
He’s a genius and a great showman
Best
Rod
Tanya said,
October 19, 2009 @ 8:42 pm
I think hes great. Hes just starting a new tour aswel, so the hype of him getting things wrong has encouraged ALOT of people (including myself) to buy tickets to his shows to see if he can come back or if he will get anything else wrong.
He amazes people and hes always going to do a sell out tour.
Cannot wait to see what happens.
Derren said,
November 9, 2009 @ 7:55 am
Hi guys,
I like all of your ideas but I am afraid I simply messed up! Thank you for your comments.
Karen said,
November 10, 2009 @ 12:02 pm
I saw Criss Angel do it once at a casino in vegas…Right first time, as he was walking past the table….
jonathan said,
December 20, 2009 @ 11:56 pm
have not read all posts so dont know if anyone mentioned the fact that the guy in the truck could easily been watching a recording of darren betting five grand. lets say darren brown was betting in a number of casinos(or the same casino) until the ball landed next to the number he predicted (or prety close). which would still make the first guys post credible about darren wanting people to believe the credibility of the show.but from this point of view it shows that him getting it so close was not through caculation but through a few trys.it had to be a recording.watch it again there is nothing to say darren is placing the bet at the same time the guy is watching it in the truck.
lljames said,
May 17, 2010 @ 7:40 am
I may be belated in watching this episode, because they don’t air it where I live, but in my opinion. He messed up and everyone else is reading too much into it. Its good that you are, because it shows that you are all thinking people, but really… He simply messed up.
Dan said,
September 21, 2010 @ 4:06 pm
Most casinos won’t accept individual bets of such large amounts on single numbers simply because the pay-out would be too large if someone happened to win. To accept a bet like that surely it would have to be a ‘high stakes’ table.
That might have been the case; from the very small amount we saw of e rest of the room it didn’t look to be very large - I didn’t see any other tables, and I think you get the feel for the size of the room and it is quite small.
So perhaps it was a high stakes table in an exclusive room you may say. But then Derren said he’d been studying that particular table for hours earlier in the day. Surely he can’t have been inconspicuous in doing so, and surely the casino would discourage people loitering around a high stakes table for hours without placing any bets.
The match-box trick was pretty obvious; he knew which box had the money (and even marked one to make it easy on himself). If the box with the money had have ended up with the ‘winner’ (guy) all he would have to do would be to not mention the message written on the note and say “look, you won, I told you you would”.
Therefore the ‘final instruction’ (the note, which you’ll note he didn’t mention until after he knew where the boxes ended up) was insurance in case the girl ended up with the money. When the guy went to put the money in his wallet he would have seen the message, but by then the trick would be finished and they wouldn’t have to show it in the TV.
Mick Deakin said,
September 21, 2010 @ 8:18 pm
Couldn’t help having a good trawl through these posts Rod
I suppose that in the end it makes good viewing. Same with Derek Acorah and the Most Haunted series. If these people sat around for three quarters of an hour and nothing happened - the show would soon be ditched. So things happen and the people act nervous or frightened or hysterical or whatever it takes to impress an audience. I am sure that deep down everyone knows its a set up - in both the above instances. Maybe I’m too much of a cynic but programs like this just dont do anything for me. A similar situation goes on in the USA and is big big TV - the televised wrestling bouts that attract live and TV audiences by the million. ALL scripted stage managed to a large degree, yet the live audiences act like its a Colosseum gladiatorial fight !! Or maybe the audience is stage managed as well
Mick
Rod said,
September 22, 2010 @ 7:56 am
Mick,
the thing with Derren Brown is that he doesn’t pretend anything he does is anything magical or mysterious - in fact he’s continually debunking those who claim to have special powers etc.
Personally I prefer his ’stage shows’ to these big one off stunts
The man is a genius
Best
Rod
JJ said,
January 1, 2011 @ 7:30 am
If we think about this outside the box for a second guys. Lets not get into a certain situation about. Derren, is a human being, and has shown that nothing he does is magic. He is an illusionist. What Derren actually has done from this show is plain and simple. He has tricked the person. He has made him believe that Derren has actually put money on a bet ect…
The whole point of the show wasn’t whether or not it was fake or real. Quiet simply put derren knows it was all fake. It was what he intended from the start. I mean Derren has shown this person things he doesn’t remember.
I may be getting side tracked, but bear in mind it’s very late that im writting this. What I’m trying to say is that, everyone on this forum has posted on it being a trick, but I don’t think that is what it is. I think it is Darren being able to get 5k of a random person, and make him believe that his money was at stake. To be honest, it matters little of the outcome, it the the persuasion and illusionary about it that has made it what it is.
Ben Lindle said,
January 8, 2011 @ 9:45 pm
It doesn’t matter if he did it on purpose or not, it worked. Just look at the numbers of poeple talking about it.
Lo said,
January 24, 2011 @ 1:41 pm
Did you guys notice that he asked for 10 five hunderds. But if he was in a casino somewhere in europe, then surley, £5000 in local currency would be sum up to a different number.
My theory is that he was betting 5000 of some low power currency (equivelant to a few hundred pounds or something) and that he did his bet on number 8 over and over agian until he got the number next to 8. SImilar to his trick in his special The System.
Maybe the bit when he was in the casino is not live…..
John said,
February 13, 2011 @ 4:27 am
Clearly it’s a “trick” and he didn’t really calculate the speed and trajectory. I’m sure everyone is at least intelligent enough to realize that. Obviously he had to “set it up” some way other than revealing how he really does it. So he makes up an elaborate story of calculations. It is similar to what he did with the lottery trick. He made up an elaborate back-story of spending a year doing research. It’s part of his showmanship. As such, there is was NO WAY for him to “win” because he would have had to pay out the money…which he clearly had no way to do without actually being able to beat the casino andwin it. But since he came close, it makes it look like he did basically beat the system, but still didn’t have to pay someone. I DO like Derren Brown, but was disappointed that he used “trick photography” (a split screen) for the lottery stunt. It’s plain as day if you look at the YouTube videos. Obviously by not being live in front of an audience, he can do whatever he likes and edit and display it however he likes later. This wasn’t filmed in 1980. Obviously hidden cameras are far better quality today if he didn’t need to “hide” the details. Similarly, he could have gotten better audio regardless of the camera quality. My guess is that he either doctored the video, or wasn’t in a real casino at all. Notice how even though he had a hidden camera, you NEVER see any of the rest of the casino. Why? He could have let the camera roll as he walked out to show it was a real casino. And if you say he did it so that the casino didn’t know it was theirs, obviously after being on national TV, any casino owner could haave saud “that’s my casino, and that’s Tim my Roulette employee.” Not to mention he LOST £5000….so i really don’t think the casino would be hunting him down.
I like his more subtle, realistic tricks, but the ones that are so over-the-top and faked, like this and the lottery show, are just stupid.
Pete said,
December 3, 2011 @ 5:34 pm
Yours is an interesting theory. It think he genuinely was trying to win but knew that if he were to fail but at least come close, it wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing for all the reasons you said. All the same it was an interesting twist and after my initial feelings of supreme anti-climax I now realise I quite enjoyed the show. As for the legal consequences, I’m sure Channel 4 had an agreement with the casino before the show was broadcast, so I’m inclined to think that everything was genuine.