A Gossip About Old Grimsby ~ A Series of Articles
A Gossip About Old Grimsby
This is the second introduction to a series of article sby Neville Sisson, so without further ado I’ll hand you over to Neville . . .
Thank goodness for Aunt Mabel, for it is she who thought a copy of ‘A Gossip About Old Grimsby‘ was an ideal gift for her niece, Evelyn, in 1933! I should point out that neither of these ladies are related to me, but they are part of the history of the volume that has been in my possession for the last forty years or so. Published by Albert Gates of 13 Old Market Place, Grimsby in 1893, a shop that I remember well, being an ‘Aladdin’s Cave’ of my youth in the 1960’s, it is now sadly gone.
The author, Anderson Bates was a stalwart of Grimsby in the latter half of Victoria’s reign. Born in the town in 1823 to William, (a yeoman), and Hannah Bates he was baptised in St. James’ Church Grimsby, on 7th. January 1824 by the curate, Rev. George Oliver!
Young Master Bates attended Grimsby Grammar School, (see map), where the head at one time was; have you guessed?, George Oliver! (Though not in young Bates’ time).
Anderson’s working life began when he found employment as an Office Boy with the Grimsby solicitor William Daubney, who’s partner he eventually became. As his career progressed, he moved on to be a founding partner in the firm of Bates & Mountain, who are still practicing in Grimsby today! Our author died in 1899.
He was wholly supportive of the development of the Grimsby community for all of his working life, being at various times: A Freeman of Grimsby and a member of the Pastures Committee, Clerk to the County Magistrates, Secretary to the Permanent Building Society Solicitor to the Grimsby Gas Board, as well as being involved in the routing of the Grimsby to Cleethorpes railway, supportive of local education and a fund raiser, via the sales of this book, for the establishment of the Grimsby General Hospital.
Fortunately for us, our author also had a life-long interest in local history. This is wholly demonstrated in the preface of his book:
” In the production of this Book I have availed myself of some articles I wrote for the Grimsby News a few years ago and a lecture I delivered in the Mechanics Hall for the benefit of the Grimsby & District Hospital. Its publication is with a view to preserve old landmarks of Grimsby, which are being rapidly removed by the improvements of the town; and as the last generation of Old Grimsby is passing away no one will soon be left to record them. I am indebted to several Old Grimsby friends for their information and assistance, and also to Mr. George Skelton, junior for the loan of the copper-plate from which the Frontispiece is taken; to all of whom I tender my thanks.
A. BATES
Abbey Road,
December 1892″
And here is the said Frontispiece, the copper plate of which I suspect was rather worn, as the numbers relating to the ‘key’ are somewhat obscure. I have therefore, for the purposes of this thread, identified all but two and have re-labelled them in bright red. The missing two are ‘Thorp’s Brewery’ and ‘Whittaker’s Brewery’ which I cannot spot at the present time. No doubt in due course this will be rectified and the map updated accordingly.
The Pride of Lincolnshire
Click here to see larger image
Opens in new window (you may need to expand window to full screen) - close to return
This map will be particularly useful in other threads which are to follow.
Regards,
Neville
Related Articles:
The Grimsby Police
Amiguru said,
November 19, 2012 @ 10:19 pm
Rod,
Thanks for ‘upping’ this thread. Sorry to all that the images are a bit slow to load, particularly the large map, (12 Mb), but it is essential to see the detail on it.
As has been mentioned on the ‘Borough Accounts’ thread, both of these will be used as sources for a series of Grimsby cameos I’ve yet to write. When they are posted, Rod will hyperlink them back to either or both of these ‘parent articles’ for easy reference.
In the meantime, there are a whole series of features to identify on the map, such as ‘Gannocks Greens’, ‘Raff Yards’, ‘The Racing Ground’ and the ‘Blue Stone’s.
Etymologically, ‘Raff’ seems to mean ’scrap wood’ or ‘odds-and-ends of wood’. ‘Gannocks’ according to an article in the Oxford Journals, means ‘a place of fortified retreat’! Now does that ring a bell or two?
Incidentally, I so empathise with Bates’ sentiments in his preface: ” …… with a view to preserve old landmarks of Grimsby, which are being rapidly removed by the improvements of the town…..as the last generation of Old Grimsby is passing away no one will soon be left to record them.” That is precisely what we are all doing on these historical threads, though it is questionable whether modern clearances can be described as being, as Bates puts it - ‘improvements of the town’.
Regards,
Neville
Rod said,
November 20, 2012 @ 7:52 am
Neville,
my pleasure, many thnaks for sending it in and I’m really looking forward to seeing the articles thta come from it.
Fantastic local history again.
In appreciation,
Rod
Brian Ashwell said,
November 21, 2012 @ 3:46 pm
I recently viewed the original large map on the Grimsby Library with Simon Balderson. The original is also hard to decipher due to the shading. I have been researching breweries and pubs for over 20 years and could not locate Gallands brewery.It is No 18 as Neville has identified, and this the only evidence Ive found to place him at the Wellow Brewery .In 1825 a sale of brewing utensils were offered at premises situate in Wellowgate ,lately occupied by W Whittaker..
Thomas Thorp was in Pasture St. It was opened in 1807 by J Garniss,later J Hobson,then E Smith and finally Hewitts.
Whittaker is in Brewery St according to this map. This map is the only evidence Ive found to place him there. In 1814 this brewery was offered for sale or let by Wm Bancroft as a newly erected freehold property. William Dann was there in 1826 before he moved to the Bull Ring.
I hope this helps. Brian
Amiguru said,
November 21, 2012 @ 4:44 pm
Brian,
That is most useful information - many thanks. I have now scrutinised the original image in hyper-zoom and there is what looks like a ‘7′ in Pasture Street but no sign of the ‘1′. I suspect that the ‘hatchings’ were done as an afterthought - maybe even for this book if the shaded area were deemed to be too ‘heavy’. They certainly aren’t done by the original engraver as in close-up they are rough and erratic. Maybe the ‘1′ of 17 and the ‘20′ were scratched out accidentally in this secondary process.
Interestingly, I had an uncle who was a cooper at the Pasture Street brewery when it was Hewitt’s; he was there in the 50’s and 60’s I seem to recall.
Regards,
Neville
Amiguru said,
November 21, 2012 @ 4:50 pm
Ooops!
For ‘20′ read ‘18′.
Neville
Brian said,
November 21, 2012 @ 8:34 pm
Neville
Im going to the library on Friday and will have another look at the map if I can persuade Simon to let me into the Inner Sanctum…..with a magnifer. I will attempt to clarify once and for all.
By the way I knew a cooper at Hewitts at the same time. He was a family friend called George Gardiner.Lovely man. He brought my Dad a pint bottle out of the tap on every visit.
Brian
Amiguru said,
November 21, 2012 @ 9:24 pm
Brian,
Firstly, ignore my ‘Ooops’ comment; I’m confusing myself now! ‘20‘ is the missing number….. (you can laugh now Peter!).
My uncle was Frank Snow so not the one you knew. I have been scouring everything I have and haven’t come up with anything yet. Keep popping back - you never know!
Regards,
Neville
Richard Oliver said,
November 24, 2012 @ 11:49 am
The map is that by Parker, which was produced in, or shortly before 1812 (watermark on a copy in Lincoln - in the Archive Office, I think). There’s a really awful ‘reproduction’ in Bob Lincoln’s Rise of Grimsby (where he misidentifies it as ‘Ordinance Survey’ and ‘1790′) - so many thanks for scanning and mounting this one!
Brian said,
November 26, 2012 @ 5:53 pm
Neville
I did visit the Grimsby Library and view the map again and took a couple of pics which Ive played about with in order to show the numbers. I hope you can now see 7, 17 and 20.
I cannot believe that I didnt note the date on it. It has to be after 1825 as it shows the malt house in Brighowgate that Yarborough built for Gooseman in that year. The map is covered in names and prices and was probably used for tithes. Robinson in his book attributed it to c1831.Confusingly in the same book he attributes the enclosures map to c1841 and it does not show the Wellow Brewery.I am increasingly wary of dates on maps.
Just a thought Rod,I wonder if any of your local contributors are aware of the Doughty Local History Group which meets 1st Weds of the month at the Nunsthorpe Resource Centre.
Kind Regards Brian
Amiguru said,
November 26, 2012 @ 10:05 pm
Brian,
Many thanks for going to that trouble - you’ve helped us all!
‘7′ is fine - in Silver St.; I think I can make out ‘17′ in the rectangle opposite Upper Burgess Street entrance; I am struggling though with ‘20′, unless that is it opposite W. Dock Street?
If you could confirm, I’ll update the large image with Rod’s cooperation.
Yes there are several factors with dates. 1. The original drawing would have been the earliest of course; 2. someone may have ammended the original by adding information at a later date; 3. Printed copies obviously ran into editions.
I have some in my collection of which editions can be as much as 150 years apart where the plates have been tweeked for a later publisher’s needs. In the 17th. and 18th. centuries it was common practice of publishers to write to remote gentry to ask if there were any changes since an earlier edition and in response it was opportune for the man of power to ‘up’ the status of his sphere of influence by giving imaginative information.
This may be how the infamous ‘Helby’ came about!
Regards,
Neville
Brian said,
November 27, 2012 @ 12:13 am
Neville
20 is just under Silver St. As this is adjacent to Brewery St it is where you would expect to find a brewery. Try a magnifer on it.17 is as you say.
Ive just looked at my photo again and there does appear to be a number in the shaded area opposite West Dock St. It looks like 30. Not another look at it again!
I have a copy of a 1870s photo of that area and there is very little on it. It is copyright of NELC and I do not reproduce their material online although I do use them for talks.This is the site of the Library.
Amiguru said,
November 27, 2012 @ 12:36 pm
Brian,
Thanks for the clarification - I think it was a case of ‘wood for trees’ on my part regarding ‘20′. It is in fact where I have put ‘7′, which according to your photo needs shifting to the other, (west), side of Silver Street. I would add the rider though that, I know that the Calvinist Chapel was on the east side of Silver Street as I went there as a student for Art studies back in the sixties. It was an annex of COFE back then. Perhaps the chapel and brewery were adjacent and to avoid overlap of the figures, Smith/Parker seperated them for practical reasons….
I have examined my scan, (which is even larger than the ‘large’ image that Rod’s hyperlink provides), in great detail and on this published print there is no remaining trace of a ‘20′. Furthermore, the ‘30?’ doesn’t exist on my print either, yet it is so clear in your photo!
I shall amend the ‘7′ ,’17′ and ‘20′ issue and send Rod the updated image, then await your continuing investigations
All of this is of course, eating into my time spent on the next ‘cameo’ but it is important to get everything in the right place on the map first to avoid any confusion.
Regards,
Neville
Rod said,
November 27, 2012 @ 5:59 pm
Neville,
I’ve replaced the maps, as requested.
Thanks and regards,
Rod
Brian said,
November 28, 2012 @ 4:00 pm
Neville
I have not been to the Library yet,but I think you need to look at Silver St and Brewery St.
The Calvanist meeting Room (7) ,according to Bob Lincoln was built in 1785 and used until 1836/7.It was at the corner of Sanctuary Lane and the west side of Silver St.There are photos on p50 of Ted Drurys Book 1 and on p16 of Janet Tierneys Grimsby in Old Photos.
The west side of Silver St in 1848 had no buildings on it. You can see this clearly on Fowlers 1848 Grimsby Street map. I have other photos of Silver St showing another building alongside the Meeting Room which finished up as Jackson and Greens Auction Rooms.
The brewery was in Brewery St which again can be seen on the1848 map.No photos exist to my knowledge as it ceased brewing when Dann moved to the Bull Ring.
Brian
Brian said,
November 28, 2012 @ 4:06 pm
Neville
I should have said there were no buildings on the EAST side in 1848. Sorry.
Brian
Amiguru said,
November 28, 2012 @ 5:32 pm
Brian,
My apologies if I have caused any confusion.
I’ve just checked the 1840 Enclosure map of Silver Street and accept that you are quite correct. On the east side there is only a building at the Victoria St. end at that time. Having said that, the art school was right at the bottom end on the right, (east side), and I would have sworn that it was a former chapel! It had that ‘air’ about it with a turning staircase to the art studio on the first floor. Maybe it was a former chapel of a different sect, built later than the Calvinist one.
“The west side of Silver St in 1848 had no buildings on it.” I take it you mean the east side.”
Being remote, I don’t have the more recent books to which you refer, but do have Lincoln’s, (whom we accept with certain reservations). Anyway, the large map is now updated in accordance with the images you have provided.
Kind regards,
Neville